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Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

arstechnica.com

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Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#101

Post by gravypod »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #67
gravypod wrote: post #4

Could this be a situation where politicians have faulty data and use that to guide how they act? I would have assumed that a majority of these states - and my home state of NJ - would be very anti-drug but these votes with >60% in favor of legalization show that significant portions of America think drug-related activities are not "immoral" or "wrong" and should not be criminalized. If you had asked me a few years ag…

> Maybe now that politicians see that people are very against drug laws we'll see some of them renege on their hard anti-drug stances. Lots to unpack here. As a general rule, politicians will say or do whatever furthers their agenda (i.e., reelection). Hard stance on X are generally a reflection of appeal in the market. Moral of the story: Few politicians have the wherewithal to lead, most reflect (in a focus group d…

> As a general rule, politicians will say or do whatever furthers their agenda ... Few politicians have the wherewithal to lead, most reflect (in a focus group driven sort of way).

We just saw a focus group questionnaire given to the entire population and, from my position, there was a significant difference from the data being used to drive the political candidate's general propaganda and the reality of what our population (in NJ) want.

Will elected officials ignore this information (sticking to data from internally run focus groups) or will they change their behavior because of this wide spread pattern in voting?

> I'm not so sure it's that most ppl are against drug laws. It's that the laws aren't working. They're not delivering on what was promised.

I've spoken to some people around where I live (coworkers, at stores, etc) in NJ and brought up the ballot. More than half of the people I've spoken to were excited to be able to get good weed legally and on Tinder in my age range a majority of the profiles are "420 friendly".

This is obviously all anecdotal but it would be really cool to see some sentiment analysis by region because I think a lot of people just want access to pot. Someone on the research side of Tinder could probably make a heat map and predict (from 420 friendly profiles) where the next vote to legalize pot will be. Might be a great way to preemptively buy up farm land, set it up for growers, and sell land/equipment to people after votes when people want to buy in.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#102

Post by heavyset_go »

rayiner wrote: post #61
gravypod wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure if that's the only thing people voted for when they wanted to be hard on drugs. As you can see in this comment thread (on an extremely left-leaning site) we have some people who think drug use is immoral. One of the sister comments says "I believe it's wrong". Definitely some section of the population wanted to use this as a way to bully minorities but another section of the population was convinced "…

I think drug use is immoral, especially in a society with a welfare system. (That’s the basis for anti-drug attitudes in places like Sweden.) I’m against harsh drug laws because I think they’re create a lot of problems in criminal justice and are abused against Black communities.

> I think drug use is immoral, especially in a society with a welfare system.

I mean, park systems could be immoral in a society with a welfare system.

People might end up spending time they could use being productive at a job instead having picnics in the park, and they could spend more of their money on entrance and parking fees, and on unhealthy things like hot dogs, soda and funnel cakes.

Same thing with fields and stadiums. People could end up spending all their time and money on tickets, hot dogs, beer and gambling.

> That’s the basis for anti-drug attitudes in places like Sweden.

Sweden also has a notoriously abstinence-based and zero-tolerance drug policy that encourages the denial of real addiction problems and epidemics, and causes harm reduction efforts to be ineffectual[1].

[1] https://transformdrugs.org/drug-policy-in-sweden-a-repressiv...

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#103

Post by NeutronStar »

wcoenen wrote: post #32
__s wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exhilaration and lasting euphoria, which in no way differs from the normal euphoria of the healthy person. You perceive an increase of self-control and possess more vitality and capacity for work. In other words, you are simply normal, and it is soon hard to believe you are under the influence of any drug. Long intensive physical work is performed without any fatigue. This result is enjoyed without any of the unpleas…

> Exhilaration and lasting euphoria, which... Context: this is quoting Sigmund Freud, who mistakenly believed the drug to be non-addictive.

Everything can be addictive. Include exercise, watching tv, or shopping.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#104

Post by michaelcampbell »

heavyset_go wrote: post #85
gravypod wrote: post #4

Could this be a situation where politicians have faulty data and use that to guide how they act? I would have assumed that a majority of these states - and my home state of NJ - would be very anti-drug but these votes with >60% in favor of legalization show that significant portions of America think drug-related activities are not "immoral" or "wrong" and should not be criminalized. If you had asked me a few years ag…

> Maybe now that politicians see that people are very against drug laws we'll see some of them renege on their hard anti-drug stances. I'd love to see this, but I doubt it. I've sat in on court sessions, and towns and cities pull in a lot of revenue through low-level drug offenses, and cops spend a significant amount of their time investigating and arresting kids for drug offenses. The criminalization of drugs, espec…

> There is a lot of money, and plenty of high-paying jobs with full pensions, that are kept afloat by the criminalization of drugs.

This is the heart of it.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#105

Post by viraptor »

supernova87a wrote: post #94
viraptor wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It cannot just be a pure good thing that we make this ok now, can it? This is not what this law does. It doesn't allow for drug dealing and production. The part about manufacturing and importing did not change and nobody said it's ok. What changed is that once you're found in possession of a tiny amount you won't go to jail, but instead will have access to more health/addiction services.

So, is your belief, or the belief of this measure, that completely decriminalizing possession and use will cause no change in demand? More people will not be tempted or trapped into using or trying drugs? Is that not a legitimate thing to question?

No, I have not said or implied that in any way. We can look at other countries and states for information and what to expect. With Portugal being one where long-term effects are known. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/05/upshot/portugal-drug-lega...

It's not all perfect, but looking at the overall impact on society it looks the right decision. Of course soft drugs will get more use as a result.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#106

Post by gravypod »

kibwen wrote: post #95
gravypod wrote: post #4

Could this be a situation where politicians have faulty data and use that to guide how they act? I would have assumed that a majority of these states - and my home state of NJ - would be very anti-drug but these votes with >60% in favor of legalization show that significant portions of America think drug-related activities are not "immoral" or "wrong" and should not be criminalized. If you had asked me a few years ag…

> If you had asked me a few years ago if I thought this was what the general American populous thought I'd have said no because, of all of the politicians who advocated for legalization of drugs, very very few got elected. Compare this with the legalization of gay marriage. As late as the mid-2000s it was considered (national-level) political suicide to publicly support gay marriage. Even plenty of politicians that m…

This is a very interesting comparison that I had never thought of. When I started paying attention to politics in high school gay marriage was legalized (if still stigmatized) and I haven't heard many politicians (outside of old recordings) arguing against it.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#107

Post by Izkata »

gravypod wrote: post #4

Could this be a situation where politicians have faulty data and use that to guide how they act? I would have assumed that a majority of these states - and my home state of NJ - would be very anti-drug but these votes with >60% in favor of legalization show that significant portions of America think drug-related activities are not "immoral" or "wrong" and should not be criminalized. If you had asked me a few years ag…

> of all of the politicians who advocated for legalization of drugs, very very few got elected.

It has long been my opinion that if people voted on individual issues instead of representatives, this would be a very different country because no politician's views match the majority of the populace. So people have to pick best-of-the-worst, a politician whose views match a handful of the issues they care about, which creates a mess overall.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#108

Post by cblconfederate »

supernova87a wrote: post #38

I'm not sure why people aren't being just a little more cautious about ballot measures like in Oregon where even heroin and such hard drugs are now decriminalized. This deserves a little more consideration about the unintended side effects of this policy, don't you think? I look at the massive illegal drug manufacturing interests (countries, cartels) who spend vast sums on getting illegal drugs to our shores. It cann…

Smoking is not illegal but look people barely smoke now. Criminalization seems like a brutish way to achieve the same effect

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#109

Post by cptnapalm »

pjc50 wrote: post #90
zdragnar wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The war on drugs was started as a way to target people of color by Nixon So was Planned Parenthood. Instead of endlessly prosecuting the past, which can never change, let's look at today and tomorrow instead. Or, if you prefer, we could look at the exact opposite approach- the Opium wars were fought to force China to allow the sale and consumption of opium, the extensive use of which was practically epidemic. As su…

Planned Parenthood was the work of Margaret Sanger, who was a feminist who believed in reproductive choice and free speech; she was repeatedly arrested because distributing knowledge of contraception violated the Comstock Act.

Margret Sanger was a eugenicist.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#110

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

heavyset_go wrote: post #85
gravypod wrote: post #4

Could this be a situation where politicians have faulty data and use that to guide how they act? I would have assumed that a majority of these states - and my home state of NJ - would be very anti-drug but these votes with >60% in favor of legalization show that significant portions of America think drug-related activities are not "immoral" or "wrong" and should not be criminalized. If you had asked me a few years ag…

> Maybe now that politicians see that people are very against drug laws we'll see some of them renege on their hard anti-drug stances. I'd love to see this, but I doubt it. I've sat in on court sessions, and towns and cities pull in a lot of revenue through low-level drug offenses, and cops spend a significant amount of their time investigating and arresting kids for drug offenses. The criminalization of drugs, espec…

Instead of ruining people's lives, we could just raise taxes slightly, but I doubt that will fly.
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