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Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

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Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#181

Post by formercoder »

kelnos wrote: post #161
formercoder wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, MBA here, not sure what "training" you're referring to. Certainly nothing I learned in school taught me to focus on quarterly results and ignore R&D. I learned to attempt to push ROIC above WACC in order to ensure firms are generating economic profits, I learned that we probably should capitalize R&D and include it in ROIC to show that it does impact value, among other things

> capitalize R&D That's the problem with "MBA thinking". You can't put a dollar value on R&D. You just can't. Anything you do will be a gross approximation, and because the number is so fuzzy, you'll be encouraged (even subconsciously) to fudge it around to make other things look better, which will undoubtedly lead you to undervalue R&D to the point where it negatively impacts your business, but you have no idea why,…

What? Sure I can. It’s on the income statement. Then I can show that some firms see more of a return on that R&D spending than others, and that impacts how valuable they are.

It’s the same as how some firms get more return out of spending the same amount on factories as others. They are better factories.

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#182

Post by [deleted] »

mark-r wrote: post #147
toast0 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My perspective is that every process node is so critical that missing the mark on 10nm had far-reaching ramifications. The problem with Intel missing on 10 nm is not so much that 10 nm is critical, but that it is critical to their roadmap. Large CPU design is heavily pipelined (like large CPUs), so you miss on the process node, you've still got a team building the refined next release for the year after, and a thir…

Moore's Law was literally created at Intel. It's painful to see them stumble like this.

[deleted]

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#183

Post by Filligree »

jbay808 wrote: post #100
somethoughts wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting one I think about is if the current CEO is basically their version of Steve Ballmer at Microsoft. Not highly loved by tech, media or finance, but basically held the ship together long enough to enable Microsoft to figure out how to transition away from the sinking ship that was Microsoft Windows and into new markets. Basically he just needs to keep it afloat long enough for Intel to be able to find it…

Maybe? Intel is in a high-technology field, where research can take a decade to bear fruit. I hope they're already planting the seeds for that growth today, or else that they have plans that will keep them afloat for a very long time.

Do you think they'd be able to hang on for a decade without catching up?

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#184

Post by The_rationalist »

ogre_codes wrote: post #180
vbezhenar wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple should have switched to AMD instead. They would have almost perfect compatibility with Intel hardware and they would not need investing lots of money to develop chips. Now they either need to halt some Mac lines or develop all kinds of CPUs, from mobile (which they probably can do, because they should be similar enough to iPhones) to server-grade (which they have no experience at all). And there's no way Mac Pr…

> They would have almost perfect compatibility with Intel hardware and they would not need investing lots of money to develop chips. With the ARM transition, Apple has perfect compatibility with the iPhone which is arguable more important for Apple than Intel compatibility. Apple is already investing tons of money in CPU design, they are just doing it via proxy with Intel building the chips for them. Bringing it in-h…

" With the ARM transition, Apple has perfect compatibility with the iPhone which is arguable more important for Apple than Intel compatibility." You can as much emulate x86 on arm than you can emulate arm on x86, so the point is moot

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#185

Post by The_rationalist »

stagger87 wrote: post #48
topspin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One wonders whether the beating Intel is is taking will lead it forego license-based downclocking with Rocket Lake.

I hope so, but they might not have a choice. I think the next AMD chips are rumored to have AVX-512 and being on a smaller process node will help immensely with heat. At 14nm and being a backport that may not be optimized for 14nm, heat management may be a problem and downclocking still required. Despite that, it is still probably too late anyways. My industry has moved on to GPUs and FPGAs for real-time compute, but…

Source for the rumor?

Also, AVX512 can be on many workloads much faster than gpus.

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#186

Post by sadness2 »

yborg wrote: post #118
sadness2 wrote: post #105

For gamers, I expect these will be priced such that Intel will offer a better price-to-performance ratio than AMD. I've seen so many industry pundits talking about the defeat of Intel for the last 2 generations, but gamers just quietly look the frames-per-second to $ ratio and keep buying Intel and the cheaper Intel-based motherboards. I think Rocket Lake will allow this trend to continue while Intel prepares Alder L…

Intel mentally isn't anywhere near the rock bottom they would need to be to admit inferiority to AMD by actually underpricing them even though they easily have the margin to do so. This might even be the right strategy if they think they can come back in a couple of years and beat AMD, why damage the brand now?

This would not be a change in pricing strategy by Intel. Intel has consistently provided better price-to-performance ratio for gaming than AMD. Since AMD bumped their pricing with this launch, Intel arguably still holds this edge, especially if you account for overclocking and board prices.

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i9-10900K-v...

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-10600K-v...

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-10600K-v...

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#187

Post by sadness2 »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #115
sadness2 wrote: post #105

For gamers, I expect these will be priced such that Intel will offer a better price-to-performance ratio than AMD. I've seen so many industry pundits talking about the defeat of Intel for the last 2 generations, but gamers just quietly look the frames-per-second to $ ratio and keep buying Intel and the cheaper Intel-based motherboards. I think Rocket Lake will allow this trend to continue while Intel prepares Alder L…

Not sure how much that’ll hold, a lot of the gaming and pc subreddits and the communities there have been strongly favouring AMD chips in builds and advice. With Zen 3 chips I expect that to continue.

There's always a loud contingent of AMD fanboys, but then there's the silent majority who don't care and just buy on raw gaming performance per $, which is reflected in market share.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/market_share.html

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#188

Post by cbozeman »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #72
tyingq wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving Jim Keller the boot is probably on Intel's list of regrets.

Did he get the boot or just decide to leave on his own? It was my impression that he decided to leave to cut his losses since they weren't going to be able to be turned around.

Jim's child has leukemia, but most of Jim's work there, "was already done anyway".

I have a close friend, who is also a close friend of Jim's family. Apparently the arrogance of Intel management hindered his ability to actually put together the type of team that he did at AMD. I'm actually concerned about Intel now.

I thought Zen 3 would be, maybe 5-8% better than Intel's current offerings, and newer chips would be on parity with them, but this is just embarrassing.

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#189

Post by Google234 »

ndesaulniers wrote: post #160
nurspouse wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using cubicles a symptom of a sickness would mean that Google and FB are sicker. Intel has better workstations.

I have a Lenovo P920 at Google. Dual Intel(R) Xeon(R) Gold 6154 CPU @ 3.00GHz for 72 virtual cores. And if I want more cores in the cloud, that's also an option. What does yours look like?

That’s not the normal work station at google. Only the chome, Linux, and maybe android team gets it since they need more cpu and memory to compile their projects.

Re: Intel’s palpable desperation on display with Rocket Lake

#190

Post by Google234 »

ndesaulniers wrote: post #160
nurspouse wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using cubicles a symptom of a sickness would mean that Google and FB are sicker. Intel has better workstations.

I have a Lenovo P920 at Google. Dual Intel(R) Xeon(R) Gold 6154 CPU @ 3.00GHz for 72 virtual cores. And if I want more cores in the cloud, that's also an option. What does yours look like?

Also, this is very ungoogly on your part. Flaunting some superficial thing like this is dumb. I’m hope you aren’t leak other more important pieces of info just to win internet arguments.
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