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Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

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Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#251

Post by gmadsen »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #78
taffer wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That C is supposed to be the most popular language makes the whole ranking questionable. The stackoverflow ranking[1] corresponds much more to my own experience in real life. [1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#most-popular-...

I'm mostly a C++ and Python programmer by a large margin, but I only ever visit Stackoverflow for Javascript questions or Linux distribution bugs/misfeatures. This only represents the sad state of Javascript documentation, I think.

I mostly agree. I tend to ask and follow peers advice rather than what is immediately available on the web.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#252

Post by tijsvd »

oftenwrong wrote: post #197
iainctduncan wrote: post #104

I was a total raving Python evangelist for the first 12 years of my coding career, and then got a job as the CTO for a Python based startup that had been running absent a technical leader for 5 years, with relatively junior coders making all the decisions. I still love Python, but I now have a completely different attitude to hyper-dynamic languages (like Python, Ruby, Clojure, Elixir, etc). In my new opinion, they a…

I don't disagree, but I will add that most long-lived Spring applications I have worked with were disasters. Figuring out how a Spring application actually works (or why it doesn't) can be difficult. Upgrading the framework, or switching to a different one without breakage is often a non-trivial task. The best codebases I have touched, in any language ecosystem, either didn't use a framework, or kept the framework fi…

> Anything that feels at all magical should be handled with great suspicion.

This. True in any language.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#253

Post by twox2 »

qorrect wrote: post #143
vslira wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've seen, jupyter notebooks reach convoluted excel formulas-level of accessibility and efficacy for lay people. Most of us really underestimate what "non" programmers can achieve with if/else, loops, equality tests, a repl and autocompletion.

Yeah I'm guessing code quality is _tanking_ around the world. Lots more code , a lot less quality.

Not every programmer is a "software engineer" for many, code is a tool to get a job done, it's a means to an end, and that's wonderful.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#254

Post by afandian »

super_mario wrote: post #136
iainctduncan wrote: post #104

I was a total raving Python evangelist for the first 12 years of my coding career, and then got a job as the CTO for a Python based startup that had been running absent a technical leader for 5 years, with relatively junior coders making all the decisions. I still love Python, but I now have a completely different attitude to hyper-dynamic languages (like Python, Ruby, Clojure, Elixir, etc). In my new opinion, they a…

Absolutely agree with you. But with advent of microservices architecture patterns, it is possible to keep service code within bounds of maintainable size.

Or it's the other way round.

In certain languages, developers may find it difficult to maintain code quality and good design in a codebase of a certain size. So they find other ways of achieving good design by introducing service boundaries.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#255

Post by stosto88 »

I love Python but I have been hearing this for years. Its programming newbies attempting to gain new skills and searching stackoverflow 100s of times like I used to. Also, I search for jobs online...Python is not the backend tool for the vast majority of companies. Like the creator of Pandas' (Python library) says ....Python is the SECOND best tool for everything.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#256

Post by tijsvd »

iainctduncan wrote: post #204
323454 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting architecture, can you provide some more details on how exactly that works? E.g. do you use a c++ library that interprets scheme?

yeah, I use S7 Scheme. It's a complete scheme interpreter in one C file, super easy to embed, quite similar to Clojure linguistically. Basically all "business" logic is in Scheme, all OS/UI interaction is in C or C++. For me, it's amazing, because I write music apps and I can reuse my model code across desktop, phone, in Max/MSP or PureData, in web assembly, everywhere. Being able to prototype in Max is awesome. My m…

Interesting. This actually sounds very similar to game developers embedding Lua or V8 for various logic. I've used Lua myself in a similar way, embedded in a high perf application, with a user script driving the logic.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#257

Post by jvican »

pkolaczk wrote: post #215
vips7L wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm writing some Java at the moment for an Android app, and it's just killing me after doing Scheme and Python Android isn't Java though. It's some frankenstein contraption made from a mutated version of Java from a decade ago. > I were starting my own business now, I'd use Clojure or Scala. I personally wouldn't ever choose Scala for anything. It's tooling is horrible (Sbt is a special hell, and scalac is as slow…

> ... and scalac is as slow as a C++ compiler Scalac is as fast as Javac if you don't overuse Scala-specific features which are known to compile slowly - implicits and macros. But it is unfair to use these features and than complain on compile speed or compare it to a language that doesn't offer similar feature set. Also, in our Java/Scala project it turned out that Scala+Bloop was way faster (10x-100x) at incrementa…

Thanks for the compliment. But, as the author of Bloop, I must say that Bloop is definitely not based on sbt and it departs a lot from the design decisions sbt made.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#258

Post by AlchemistCamp »

iainctduncan wrote: post #104

I was a total raving Python evangelist for the first 12 years of my coding career, and then got a job as the CTO for a Python based startup that had been running absent a technical leader for 5 years, with relatively junior coders making all the decisions. I still love Python, but I now have a completely different attitude to hyper-dynamic languages (like Python, Ruby, Clojure, Elixir, etc). In my new opinion, they a…

> I still love Python, but I now have a completely different attitude to hyper-dynamic languages (like Python, Ruby, Clojure, Elixir, etc).

Elixir is all about immutable structs and pattern matching. I don't think "hyper dynamic" is a fair characterization at all.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#259

Post by denysvitali »

cashewchoo wrote: post #111
iainctduncan wrote: post #104

I was a total raving Python evangelist for the first 12 years of my coding career, and then got a job as the CTO for a Python based startup that had been running absent a technical leader for 5 years, with relatively junior coders making all the decisions. I still love Python, but I now have a completely different attitude to hyper-dynamic languages (like Python, Ruby, Clojure, Elixir, etc). In my new opinion, they a…

This is my experience as well. Incidentally "this is a problem of people, not language" is one of my pet peeve statements (not that I'm mad at you, of course!) specifically because I've had it used against me enough to defend choosing, imo, bad tools. Everyone thinks they have developers that are good enough that they don't need the bumpers up when they bowl. But honestly, it's just almost never true (and if it is, i…

Exactly my feeling honestly. I was a fan of Javascript and Python a couple of years ago, and I strongly (and still do) hated Java for its verbosity. I really have to admit that, especially with large teams, a strongly typed language is definitely the way to go.

I don't feel confident when I program in Python, nor in Javascript exactly for the lack of proper typing. One could argue that if you know exactly what you are doing, types can even be ignored, which is kind of true - but they're there to help the developer and his team. I don't see any good reason to use Python over Golang, for example, if we only consider the language itself and the confidence that you get from using a statically typed language.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#260

Post by AlchemistCamp »

rjsw wrote: post #23
st1x7 wrote: post #14

And they have C as number one? Visual Basic ranked higher than JavaScript? Groovy (!?) higher than Go, Swift and Ruby? R higher than SQL? What a joke the TIOBE index is.

There are a lot of CPUs in embedded applications, far more than the number of PCs and smartphones, I would expect most of the embedded stuff to be written in C.

Do you believe more devs are working on embedded apps than web apps in 2020?
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