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Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

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Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#161

Post by xtracto »

dep_b wrote: post #7

The past month I have used Python again after a few years and I have to say I didn't quite like the experience as much as before. On one hand I also used vanilla Python instead of something easier to use like Django but the amount of preventable run-time errors and the lack of IDE autocomplete support at various points was kind of off-putting after coming back from very strictly typed languages like Swift, Kotlin or…

I don't understand why someone would use Python instead of say using Ruby. I think right now it is a matter of "synergy" given that Pandas, Torch and all those libraries are more tailored for Python, but as a scripting language Ruby is just so much easier, elegant and intuitive [ len(something) vs something.length ]

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#162

Post by globular-toast »

nih0 wrote: post #97
commandlinefan wrote: post #95

> Python has long been a top-loved programming language, as has Java Um... nobody _loves_ Java. We use it, but we don't love it.

i love it

You don't know any other languages.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#163

Post by 323454 »

iainctduncan wrote: post #120
sumtechguy wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have done big and small python/C/C++ projects. For python small projects it is pretty sweet. You type some commands and you are up and running. With c/c++ it seems there is always this 'big' first time step for setup. Yet long term that seems to flip around like you have seen. Where that first time setup works pretty good for a long time. Whereas in python the org of the program becomes this dead weight you are kin…

Yeah, I hear you. Nowadays I do Scheme embedded in C/C++. The stuff I used to love Python for is now done in Scheme, and the outer containers are in C++. It's actually a really nice way to write code, for me at least. Forces a clean architecture on you, and you know you can always move anything out into C++ if you need either a library or lower-level access. I use S7, but you could use Guile, Gambit, Chicken similarl…

This is an interesting architecture, can you provide some more details on how exactly that works? E.g. do you use a c++ library that interprets scheme?

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#164

Post by chaostheory »

iainctduncan wrote: post #104

I was a total raving Python evangelist for the first 12 years of my coding career, and then got a job as the CTO for a Python based startup that had been running absent a technical leader for 5 years, with relatively junior coders making all the decisions. I still love Python, but I now have a completely different attitude to hyper-dynamic languages (like Python, Ruby, Clojure, Elixir, etc). In my new opinion, they a…

To be specific, it's the lack of typing that makes large code bases in Python, Ruby, and especially JavaScript a huge pain compared to Java. It makes debugging much more difficult. Thankfully this is being fixed with stuff like Typescript and similar projects for both Python and Ruby.

Some people may argue, "but documentation would make this an non-issue". Guarantees built-in to the platform itself are more reliable than human aspirations, or automatic memory management as a feature wouldn't have gotten popular.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#165

Post by aprdm »

smt88 wrote: post #2

We need to start ranking languages based on what people use them for. Python is certainly #1 in ML, for example, but far from #1 in web. I had a "which stack" argument with a client recently for a web server processing tons of data. He wanted to use Node (which I hate, but also use when performance doesn't matter because TypeScript is so good). I showed him that the Node library ecosystem is actually pretty weak (man…

What makes you so certain it is far from #1 in web? Django is massively popular as is flask.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#166

Post by asdfman123 »

iainctduncan wrote: post #104

I was a total raving Python evangelist for the first 12 years of my coding career, and then got a job as the CTO for a Python based startup that had been running absent a technical leader for 5 years, with relatively junior coders making all the decisions. I still love Python, but I now have a completely different attitude to hyper-dynamic languages (like Python, Ruby, Clojure, Elixir, etc). In my new opinion, they a…

Programming languages don't kill projects -- people kill projects.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#167

Post by asdfman123 »

iainctduncan wrote: post #96

I was a Python dev for 14 years or so (now doing mostly personal projects in C/C++, Scheme, Clojure), and 10 years ago met my partner who is a biologist. I think one thing programmers underestimate is how many scientists and academics are using Python. It's not just ML, it's pretty much every kind of scientist and tons of non-science academics too. The fact that it's a great "casual" or part-time language is huge for…

Oh yeah. Lots of scientists just want to turn their text file of data points into a graph, and Python is great for that.

Some people just stick to the basic stuff but there's plenty of other, more complicated programs that are developed by academics/students. Guess what they're going to use? The language they first used to make that pretty graph.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#168

Post by jasim »

iainctduncan wrote: post #104

I was a total raving Python evangelist for the first 12 years of my coding career, and then got a job as the CTO for a Python based startup that had been running absent a technical leader for 5 years, with relatively junior coders making all the decisions. I still love Python, but I now have a completely different attitude to hyper-dynamic languages (like Python, Ruby, Clojure, Elixir, etc). In my new opinion, they a…

But even static types (even the Hindley-Milner variety) won't be of much help in a team of juniors with no technical leadership. The codebase will end up in the same place - needing a rewrite - because even a good typing discipline cannot immediately substitute hard-won lessons in program design.

In fact I never thought I'd say this - for the first two years of discovering sum types, I thought they were the silver bullet of computing, and certain experiences have sadly tempered me there :)

I still agree that types _can_ make the flow and transformation of data in the system clearer than if there were no types. Though without experience, we could very well end up with convoluted designs and that can be as difficult to untangle as a dynamic spaghetti.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#169

Post by [deleted] »

Glyptodon wrote: post #49
smt88 wrote: post #2

We need to start ranking languages based on what people use them for. Python is certainly #1 in ML, for example, but far from #1 in web. I had a "which stack" argument with a client recently for a web server processing tons of data. He wanted to use Node (which I hate, but also use when performance doesn't matter because TypeScript is so good). I showed him that the Node library ecosystem is actually pretty weak (man…

I went from Rails to a Node-based stack with a job change recently and the backend libs we're using feel comparitively like pushing boulders uphill, which I didn't expect. (There may be more/better options than what we're using of course.)

[deleted]

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#170

Post by [deleted] »

Glyptodon wrote: post #49
smt88 wrote: post #2

We need to start ranking languages based on what people use them for. Python is certainly #1 in ML, for example, but far from #1 in web. I had a "which stack" argument with a client recently for a web server processing tons of data. He wanted to use Node (which I hate, but also use when performance doesn't matter because TypeScript is so good). I showed him that the Node library ecosystem is actually pretty weak (man…

I went from Rails to a Node-based stack with a job change recently and the backend libs we're using feel comparitively like pushing boulders uphill, which I didn't expect. (There may be more/better options than what we're using of course.)

[deleted]
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