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Netflix Targets Critical ‘Cuties’ Tweets with Copyright Takedown Requests

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Re: Netflix Targets Critical ‘Cuties’ Tweets with Copyright Takedown Requests

#41

Post by germinalphrase »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #32
saurik wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the punishment to Netflix once you win in court is just damages (good luck showing any actual serious large damages here) and legal costs... there should be a massive fine and a loss of DMCA Section 512 expedited takedown privileges if you use it incorrectly.

Declare your billable rate in the counternotice as $1000/hr and use that as a basis for compensatory damages.

IANAL - but it seems unlikely that you can just claim an arbitrarily large hourly fee. Wouldn’t you need to justify those costs in some manner?

Re: Netflix Targets Critical ‘Cuties’ Tweets with Copyright Takedown Requests

#42

Post by monkpit »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #20
michaelt wrote: post #9

The changes between the French and American posters for 'Cuties' [1] seem like a pretty obvious attempt to manufacture controversy under the "no such thing as bad publicity" approach to marketing. And it's worked, in a sense: It wouldn't be on the front page of HN otherwise. If Netflix have got more controversy than they intended to, this seems like a pretty clear case of play stupid games, win stupid prizes. [1] htt…

This got to the front page of HN because they're specifically using the DMCA against opinions Netflix dislikes. I don't think it has to do with the show specifically.

But it does have the title in the headline, on the front page.

Re: Netflix Targets Critical ‘Cuties’ Tweets with Copyright Takedown Requests

#43

Post by srtjstjsj »

etc-hosts wrote: post #36
fennecfoxen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And -- from what I gather from the coverage -- becoming disillusioned with the whole premise once the thrill of rebellion against parents is gone.

correct, the documentary isn't about watching kids twerk for a few hours. it's really about how our culture, amplified by the internet, makes kids believe think twerking at 11 is a good idea, but the kids eventually reject it, and go back to being kids. You don't get this context if you watch just the first few minutes of it, or shouty media commentary about it.

Only 1 kid rejects it.

Re: Netflix Targets Critical ‘Cuties’ Tweets with Copyright Takedown Requests

#44

Post by Dirlewanger »

etc-hosts wrote: post #36
fennecfoxen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And -- from what I gather from the coverage -- becoming disillusioned with the whole premise once the thrill of rebellion against parents is gone.

correct, the documentary isn't about watching kids twerk for a few hours. it's really about how our culture, amplified by the internet, makes kids believe think twerking at 11 is a good idea, but the kids eventually reject it, and go back to being kids. You don't get this context if you watch just the first few minutes of it, or shouty media commentary about it.

Right, but I think what most people are pissed off about is the creator's hypocrisy. She says it's not about glorifying the sexualization of children...yet has multiple multi-minute takes of doing just that, when the point could have gotten across without doing so.

Re: Netflix Targets Critical ‘Cuties’ Tweets with Copyright Takedown Requests

#45

Post by ballenf »

blendergeek wrote: post #2

> Legally the company is allowed to do this of course, as they own the rights. Isn't this textbook fair use? Nothing about these clips being shared on Twitter replaces the viewing experience of Cuties. The tweets are definitely transformative and provide a critique of the film. Doesn't copyright law explicitly permit this use of copyrighted works?

If Netflix' position is that the most provocative clips or screenshots reduce the market for the film, doesn't this undermine their claim that the prurient aspect of the film is secondary to the commentary portion? To put it another way, Netflix is taking a position closer to Playboy than the Discovery Channel in terms of the positioning of the film.

It is relatively harder to argue fair use in the use of Playboy images or porn clips than non-"adult" material. Because the image/clip itself undermines the market value of the work, regardless of the motivation or intent of the critic.

Re: Netflix Targets Critical ‘Cuties’ Tweets with Copyright Takedown Requests

#46

Post by heartbeats »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #32
saurik wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the punishment to Netflix once you win in court is just damages (good luck showing any actual serious large damages here) and legal costs... there should be a massive fine and a loss of DMCA Section 512 expedited takedown privileges if you use it incorrectly.

Declare your billable rate in the counternotice as $1000/hr and use that as a basis for compensatory damages.

There is a cap. Also, you can't get reimbursed unless you're an actual lawyer - no pro-se.

Re: Netflix Targets Critical ‘Cuties’ Tweets with Copyright Takedown Requests

#47

Post by AlphaOne1 »

etc-hosts wrote: post #36
fennecfoxen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And -- from what I gather from the coverage -- becoming disillusioned with the whole premise once the thrill of rebellion against parents is gone.

correct, the documentary isn't about watching kids twerk for a few hours. it's really about how our culture, amplified by the internet, makes kids believe think twerking at 11 is a good idea, but the kids eventually reject it, and go back to being kids. You don't get this context if you watch just the first few minutes of it, or shouty media commentary about it.

Part of the controversy was the poster that was released for the marketing. People (I think rightfully) thought it was inappropriate. Personally, I thought it was problematic that this poster was not rejected by anyone at Netflix prior to release. The fact that Netflix backtracked on the poster seems to indicate that they realized the mistake they had made. Again, this mistake should never have happened in the first place.

Do we as a society want our children to think that it's ok for children to be sexualized like this? Yes, I know the argument is that the point of the movie is the opposite, but I'm not going to let my children watch it so that the 'learn' this message. The message should be self evident and not need a movie to make the point. Some may disagree but as a parent I feel very strongly about this.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53846419

Re: Netflix Targets Critical ‘Cuties’ Tweets with Copyright Takedown Requests

#48

Post by cutitout »

pavlov wrote: post #27
bobthechef wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Controversy or a move to normalize the sexualization of children? Some claim the latter. Generally speaking, film is a powerful medium through which things are normalized. Think of the shows and film that helped normalize homosexuality or promiscuity and shaped attitudes toward sex and sexuality (often through humor; levity is a powerful tool). They worked. There doesn't need to be a conspiracy to make this happen, j…

During the Hollywood Code years of 1934-68, American movie productions were strictly regulated on moral grounds to ensure they don't present positive views of homosexuality or promiscuity. Look at how well that worked. Anyway, that's irrelevant here because the French movie in question is fundamentally critical of the existing normalization of sexualization of children. A lot of fault must be put on Netflix for jacki…

You cannot seriously mention homosexuality between consenting adults and sexualization of children in the same sentence.

> because the French movie in question is fundamentally critical of the existing normalization of sexualization of children.

By engaging in it.. this isn't even a fig leaf, that's like posting insults and slurs to criticize insults and slurs, or saying "no offense, but $incredibly_offensive_thing". Even if that actually is the intention, that is irrelevant, the actions are what matters.

> A lot of fault must be put on Netflix for jacking up the controversy in their US marketing.

Nobody but the defenders of this even care about the marketing; it's about the content, about the minute long close up shots of children "grinding".

Regardless of the attempts to frame it that way, "thinking of the children" isn't just a monopoly of hypocritical, puritan "outrage", it's also what any healthy adult does by default. Even (non-predator) animals in some cases treat the young of other species that way.

Re: Netflix Targets Critical ‘Cuties’ Tweets with Copyright Takedown Requests

#49

Post by etc-hosts »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #44
etc-hosts wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

correct, the documentary isn't about watching kids twerk for a few hours. it's really about how our culture, amplified by the internet, makes kids believe think twerking at 11 is a good idea, but the kids eventually reject it, and go back to being kids. You don't get this context if you watch just the first few minutes of it, or shouty media commentary about it.

Right, but I think what most people are pissed off about is the creator's hypocrisy. She says it's not about glorifying the sexualization of children...yet has multiple multi-minute takes of doing just that, when the point could have gotten across without doing so.

I think she edited the documentary poorly, also I don't think it's a very good documentary.

It did get everyone talking about the problems of media sexualizing(is that word?) kids.

So maybe it's a great documentary! Not sure.

Re: Netflix Targets Critical ‘Cuties’ Tweets with Copyright Takedown Requests

#50

Post by tyingq »

AlphaOne1 wrote: post #47
etc-hosts wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

correct, the documentary isn't about watching kids twerk for a few hours. it's really about how our culture, amplified by the internet, makes kids believe think twerking at 11 is a good idea, but the kids eventually reject it, and go back to being kids. You don't get this context if you watch just the first few minutes of it, or shouty media commentary about it.

Part of the controversy was the poster that was released for the marketing. People (I think rightfully) thought it was inappropriate. Personally, I thought it was problematic that this poster was not rejected by anyone at Netflix prior to release. The fact that Netflix backtracked on the poster seems to indicate that they realized the mistake they had made. Again, this mistake should never have happened in the first…

There are also credible reviewers noting that the film indulges many more minutes in the controversial imagery than is needed.
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