So you want to buy a farm? • Hacker News Board

Re: So you want to buy a farm?

#161

Post by bluGill » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 4:10 PM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #111

pjc50 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> supermarket supported form "Self sufficient" where you buy things from the supermarket is just greenwashing cosplay. Just like a "self driving" car where you can't take your hands off the steering wheel.

It is, but self sufficiency is nearly impossible. To pay for tools and machines, electricity and water you would need to sell parts of your produce. That is hard if you do not scale up to a level to compete with highly advanced industrial agriculture. Of course you could scrap the electricity and get your water from the nearest river, but I doubt many people would want to put up with that.

Self sufficiency is possible if you are given 5-10 acres with no taxes. Even then eventually you will need to trade your animals with someone else just so your breeding stock doesn't get inbred too much.

Most people wouldn't want true self sufficiency if they could have it. I admire people who "go into the woods" for years (they are generally more hunter/gathers than farmers); but even as introverted as I am, I still like to have a larger group of people around me.

Re: So you want to buy a farm?

#162

Post by adwww » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

telesilla wrote: post #158

adwww wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family make more profit renting an old workers cottage on the farm as an Airbnb than they get revenue from the entire organic diary operation.

Without the dairy operation I'd suspect they'd have less land, less beauty, less reason to live where they are - the workers cottage wouldn't be so charming if it were on the edge of a lifestyle block 15 minutes from the city. Don't discount the value of their investment!

Yeah, the Adam Smith, purely financially motivated thing to do would be to sell the cows and charming old barns, move out of the ancient manor farmhouse and make a fortune from renting that out as well.

But the life satisifaction of being a hotelier compared to someone who works the land and raises livestock would not be nearly the same.

Re: So you want to buy a farm?

#163

Post by bluGill » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

leemailll wrote: post #107

brnt wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how things are in your jurisdiction, but here in Europe making a profit on farming just isn't possible. This sector lives and dies by subsidies. You're going to have a cash crop or market the hell out of your product, both seem opposite to the goal of starting the farm in the first place.

It might depend on which crop to grow. I remember in KING CORN (2007), farmer can't make a profit without government subsidy.

Farmers can make a profit without subsidies. However you might not want to live in that world: with less farmers food prices will go up - particularly in a bad year when large numbers of people in your city need to starve to death because farmers tried to raise only as much food as needed, and guessed wrong because of the bad weather the previous season.

Re: So you want to buy a farm?

#164

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 4:18 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: So you want to buy a farm?

#165

Post by msisk6 » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 4:20 PM UTC

person22 wrote: post #123

raptorraver wrote: post #40

I'm starting to sell my city apartment this week and we are going to move to the country side to start a small scale farm! I've worked in the farm all my youth and this summer we lived on the place and did some small scale gardening. I don't have any (at least many) false thoughts about how cool and romantic it will be. It will be hard and frustrating at times but waay more fulfilling than the current tech job. We're…

I work full time (now remotely) and live on 32 acres of woods and fields. It used to be farmed but hadn't been for a while when I bought it 12 years ago. My initial idea was to grow produce to sell but it didn't work out. Here are some of the problems I encountered: 1.) Deer - we are overrun with white tail deer. If I don't surround anything I grow with 6ft welded wire fence, it doesn't last a week. I have set up ele…

We have 10-acres and have similar problems.

The amount of time and physical labor to get anything done is crazy. We have rodent problems, too, and our collection of six-towed barn cats do the best they can. Chickens do an amazing job on rodents, BTW. Chicken and duck eggs fresh from the farm are amazing.

We had an opossum get into the barn last night and killed some of our ducks. Normally these aren't hard to get rid of but this one was very aggressive and I had to shoot it. Earlier in the year it was raccoons and they were able to break into a cage and do an amazing amount of carnage.

Bugs got to our pear and apple trees this year before we did so that was a bust.

I've been trying to get bees going but mites are killing everything.

Oh, back-hoes. Mine is new but even new farm equipment has problems. I cut the end off one of my fingers working on our tractor/back-hoe earlier in the year. Which is fun since my day job is software.

So, yeah, farming isn't for the faint of heart.

Re: So you want to buy a farm?

#166

Post by bluGill » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 4:20 PM UTC

zenxblr wrote: post #157

bluGill wrote: post #131

Missing from the above is step one: go to your local university and learn how to farm. Every area is different so what is smart in one area is bad in another. This is why you need to find a local university: researchers there know what works in your area. this article repeats a lot of common "sustainable farming" and "save the soil" type phases, but what most people think is sustainable is in fact harmful in the long…

What the univs around here have been teaching have killed soils and the ecosystem to near collapse levels :/ There's a need for those who can afford to be patient for 4-5 years to try regenerative methods. And many farms have gotten there, esp given the tropical climate and monsoons that we have.

There are many different universities so I have no idea which one you mean. However I do know that all the ones I know of are doing real scientific research into the question. They have been trying to spread what works.

Many of the things people think of as good actually harm soil, while what you think of as harming the soil may in fact harm it. Most of the people talking about Organic good are using their voice to make money, not spread the truth.

Re: So you want to buy a farm?

#167

Post by grecy » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #125

lotsofpulp wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, you need decent cashflow to pay for healthcare. You probably also need to save for natural disasters or injuries that disable you. And if you have kids to support, even more costs.

You need those cashflows to pay for healthcare anywhere. In Europe you get more subsidies if you can't pay your own, but modern healthcare is expensive and only possible in societies where the average person has a large cashflow. (Yes healthcare is more expensive in the US than similar levels of care in Europe, but it isn't the order of magnitude more that most people think)

I've been making roughly $10k a year for the last 4 years (so in fact below the tax free threshold), and I've got perfectly good healthcare in Canada. Same in Australia.

Re: So you want to buy a farm?

#168

Post by bluGill » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

selfinvariant wrote: post #46

I know that the motivation behind the question is outside of the blog post, but I'm really curious, and would love to ask folks here, what is so exciting about living on a farm? Is it about independence? Or radical self reliance? As a person who lived my whole life in cities, I have a very hard time to find an appeal in a lifestyle like the one described in an article.Can someone share what they like / appreciate abo…

A lot of it is what you know. Different areas support different lifestyles. You have learned to enjoy the things you can do in a city: restaurants, walking where other people are walking, concerts, shopping, people watching (not a complete list). In the country we substitute respectively: cooking, solitary walks, listening to wildlife, making our own things, and watching nature. Of course you can do anything from either list in either place if you want to, but it is much harder so you do it less. Even where you can do something from the other list, your environment places limits (My workshop is larger than most houses...)

If I took you out of the city and forced you to work for me as farm labor (yet somehow as a free person not a slave) you would hate the first year or two. However after a few years you would learn the things you can do in the country. One day you would find yourself shooting a deer off your back deck and realize that you used to think guns should be illegal...

Re: So you want to buy a farm?

#169

Post by pueblito » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

hardwaregeek wrote: post #51

driverdan wrote: post #20

I always laugh when someone who has never worked on a farm talks about buying one. Most farming is hard work, much harder than an office job. And most small farms do not make much money, especially if you don't know what you're doing. If you're thinking about it go get a job on one first before you buy anything.

It's up there with buying a restaurant as poor business decisions go.

I dunno about that, I'm in agriculture and I'm doing just fine

Re: So you want to buy a farm?

#170

Post by bluGill » Thu, Nov 05, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #167

bluGill wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need those cashflows to pay for healthcare anywhere. In Europe you get more subsidies if you can't pay your own, but modern healthcare is expensive and only possible in societies where the average person has a large cashflow. (Yes healthcare is more expensive in the US than similar levels of care in Europe, but it isn't the order of magnitude more that most people think)

I've been making roughly $10k a year for the last 4 years (so in fact below the tax free threshold), and I've got perfectly good healthcare in Canada. Same in Australia.

You have good healthcare because someone else is subsidizing your healthcare. If you were contributing your fair share to society you would have to earn more than that to live.

There are many reasons that a society may choose to subsidize someone who isn't contributing their fair share. I agree with some of those reasons, not others.