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Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

techrepublic.com

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Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#91

Post by taffer »

CivBase wrote: post #53
taffer wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That C is supposed to be the most popular language makes the whole ranking questionable. The stackoverflow ranking[1] corresponds much more to my own experience in real life. [1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#most-popular-...

C is the most popular language for embedded systems development by a huge margin. StackOverflow is also a place for asking questions. C is a relatively simple language and one which has been around for longer than most developers have been alive. There may just not be much left to ask about it.

Just about every larger company has an IT department where people write business or web applications. But not every larger company has people programming embedded systems. The TIOBE index simply does not reflect reality.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#92

Post by kzrdude »

ericvsmith wrote: post #81
kzrdude wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is the example where dataclasses could have supported __slots__ better with a metaclass? Thanks for working on dataclasses :) - as I said, it's my #1 new feature in Python.

Maybe that would have worked better with a metaclass. But still, I think not using a metaclass is the more flexible design. Maybe I'll add the "add_slots" behavior into the @dataclass decorator in 3.10, even though it would need to return a new class. At least it could be well documented, and I doubt it's a concern for most people. > Thanks for working on dataclasses :) - as I said, it's my #1 new feature in Python.…

Maybe the __slots__ discussion is not really that important - it's just convenience, and the regular old method of adding slots still works. So it's a minor thing.

I have diligently converted to f-strings but it doesn't give me new expressibility like I feel dataclasses do, just convenience :)

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#93

Post by wainstead »

imtringued wrote: post #68
Deukhoofd wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that StackOverflow shows what developers have the most questions about. This means that ranking is influenced by the amount of experience people have in the programming field, and leads to languages people commonly use as their first languages showing higher. Besides that it's also influenced by how good the language is at explaining to the user what is going wrong. Clear error messages mean the user uses S…

The stackoverflow ranking we are talking about is the result of a survey. It's not influenced by amount of experience. Experienced developers don't get greater or lower weighting in that survey.

True, however, the primary problem with the SO survey is the participants are self-selected [1], not randomly sampled. (It's explained in the survey's methodology).

What this means is we have no idea if the sample of programmers is representative of the worldwide programmer population.

I'd argue that C# and other Microsoft languages are vastly under-represented in the SO survey, but we have no way of knowing if that's true.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-selection_bias

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#94

Post by k_sze »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #89
k_sze wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Static typing can be a bitch to get right. There are quite a few weird cases where it would be natural to write without types, but tricky once you introduce static typing and want to keep pleasing the TypeScript type checker, usually involving generics.

Types don’t affect runtime performance unless you’re changing the algorithm. Maybe you’re arguing that correctly annotating certain algorithms is harder than switching to a slower but easier-to-annotate algorithm, but I’m very skeptical of this, especially since (in my experience) well-typed programs seem to be more efficient (easier for the compiler to optimize types that don’t change at runtime than those that do).

I wasn't talking about runtime performance at all. I was talking about coding speed. (I don't think the commenters before me were talking about runtime performance either? Did I misunderstand?)

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#96

Post by iainctduncan »

I was a Python dev for 14 years or so (now doing mostly personal projects in C/C++, Scheme, Clojure), and 10 years ago met my partner who is a biologist. I think one thing programmers underestimate is how many scientists and academics are using Python. It's not just ML, it's pretty much every kind of scientist and tons of non-science academics too. The fact that it's a great "casual" or part-time language is huge for these people. They aren't full time (or even self-identifying) programmers, but their programs are non-trivial. The readability, portability, tooling, and massive package ecosystem is huge for them. In that world, being somewhat comfortable in R and Python is becoming table stakes for really large swathes of academia.

Personally I believe this is exactly why Python is dominant in ML now. We are harvesting after 20 years of academics happily writing libraries and tools for academic work in Python. :-)

So I have no idea how the article got their numbers, but I'm not at all surprised to see the sheer number of people programming in Python exploding.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#98

Post by pwdisswordfish4 »

mumphster wrote: post #76
z3t4 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are probably using TypeScript. Try vanilla Node/JS if you want a faster Rails.

What does typescript have to do with speed?

This question doesn't make sense. The comment is vanilla JS as "a faster Rails", not "vanilla JS is faster than TypeScript"...

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#100

Post by chapium »

commandlinefan wrote: post #95

> Python has long been a top-loved programming language, as has Java Um... nobody _loves_ Java. We use it, but we don't love it.

I used to be turned off by the boilerplate and verbose nature of the language. Over time, having all of this information out in the open removes a lot of guesswork based on tacit knowledge. I also really appreciate its static typing even though that can be limiting.
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