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Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

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Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#71

Post by Retric »

wil421 wrote: post #29
DJHenk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you take away HTML/CSS and SQL, because most people would not call them programming languages, Python still comes in second, right above Java. So it's alright.

How could they even include HTML/CSS? A huge majority of people who are using Python, Java, .net, and JavaScript are going to answer yes to those. SQL is justified though. I’ve met quite a few BAs or DBAs who can do magic in a sql developer suite but don’t have a programming bone in their body.

IMO, this is one of those theory vs practice things. CSS is turing-complete, but that’s really not how it’s used. So, excluding CSS really should also exclude SQL, though not TSQL.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#72

Post by mumblemumble »

tluyben2 wrote: post #20
zusoomro wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, what other server side languages do you feel have a better library ecosystem than Node/JS?

JVM based languages? Also I like the .NET ecosystem as it comes with batteries included and is quick to develop with.

I'm finding that JVM is really starting to look threadbare as a web development language.

I haven't tried Spring Boot, so I can't speak to that, but gather that a lot of people like it. Otherwise, though, it's kind of a mess of too @#$% many options and no clear winner aside from the legacy stuff that nobody actually enjoys working with on the flagship language, an alternative language that was initially promising for web development but ultimately collapsed under the weight of its own creeping featuritis, an alternative language that collapsed under the weight of efforts to turn it into Jonathan Livingston Programming Language, an alternative language that collapsed under the weight of a cult of personality, and an alternative language that looks poised to collapse under the weight of Oracle v. Google.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#73

Post by crazypython »

kzrdude wrote: post #10
dep_b wrote: post #7

The past month I have used Python again after a few years and I have to say I didn't quite like the experience as much as before. On one hand I also used vanilla Python instead of something easier to use like Django but the amount of preventable run-time errors and the lack of IDE autocomplete support at various points was kind of off-putting after coming back from very strictly typed languages like Swift, Kotlin or…

dataclasses are the best recent addition to Python, IMO, maybe tied with ordered dicts. Python definitely doesn't have conceptual simplicity, because there are many competing concepts in the language, and lack of focus on uniformity. (Example - enums are implemented with a metaclass and dataclasses with a class decorator - arguably the latter is the wrong choice, because it is already evident it limits what kind of f…

No, (optional) static typing is the best recent addition to Python. It allows IDEs to catch a large variety of errors. The static type system is part of the language and has multiple implementations. It's Hindley-Milner, making it two-way, like Haskell's type system.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#74

Post by thefounder »

smt88 wrote: post #2

We need to start ranking languages based on what people use them for. Python is certainly #1 in ML, for example, but far from #1 in web. I had a "which stack" argument with a client recently for a web server processing tons of data. He wanted to use Node (which I hate, but also use when performance doesn't matter because TypeScript is so good). I showed him that the Node library ecosystem is actually pretty weak (man…

Go has the best std lib of all.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#75

Post by LeonenTheDK »

loblollyboy wrote: post #58
dep_b wrote: post #7

The past month I have used Python again after a few years and I have to say I didn't quite like the experience as much as before. On one hand I also used vanilla Python instead of something easier to use like Django but the amount of preventable run-time errors and the lack of IDE autocomplete support at various points was kind of off-putting after coming back from very strictly typed languages like Swift, Kotlin or…

Pycharm autocomplete is very good - I don’t know if that is what you mean by autocomplete support Requests is one of the modules that had more change on 2-3, but being basically the most popular language (for good reason), it’s pretty easy to find documentation for either version. I imagine a lot more than for Phoenix/elixir whatever that is. I think you’re being difficult for the sake of being difficult. I am not a…

You might be surprised to see the quality of the docs in the Elixir world: https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix/Phoenix.html

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#76

Post by mumphster »

z3t4 wrote: post #60
Glyptodon wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went from Rails to a Node-based stack with a job change recently and the backend libs we're using feel comparitively like pushing boulders uphill, which I didn't expect. (There may be more/better options than what we're using of course.)

You are probably using TypeScript. Try vanilla Node/JS if you want a faster Rails.

What does typescript have to do with speed?

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#77

Post by whynotminot »

onox wrote: post #51
whynotminot wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need more speed than Python can offer, but still care about developer productivity, Go is pretty great.

What are good reasons to choose Go? If I need a language for non-scripting tasks, I would choose Ada, which is very easy to read, has a nice type system and generics, performance, and you could statically compile everything if you wanted.

I don't know anything about Ada, so perhaps that is a better choice!

But for my personal experience Go's concurrency features, type system, and simplicity is pretty great for getting up and going quickly with performant code.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#78

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

taffer wrote: post #6
_lbaq wrote: post #3

Python is certainly popular, but the TIOBE Index ranking is not credible. Quote: "The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. " According to this index, "Logo", beats out Rust, Scala, Kotlin, and Cobol. I cannot remind myself when I last time saw a course, book or even any source code covering Logo. This must be some very poorly vetted, automatically collected…

That C is supposed to be the most popular language makes the whole ranking questionable. The stackoverflow ranking[1] corresponds much more to my own experience in real life. [1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#most-popular-...

I'm mostly a C++ and Python programmer by a large margin, but I only ever visit Stackoverflow for Javascript questions or Linux distribution bugs/misfeatures.

This only represents the sad state of Javascript documentation, I think.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#79

Post by ahallan »

dep_b wrote: post #7

The past month I have used Python again after a few years and I have to say I didn't quite like the experience as much as before. On one hand I also used vanilla Python instead of something easier to use like Django but the amount of preventable run-time errors and the lack of IDE autocomplete support at various points was kind of off-putting after coming back from very strictly typed languages like Swift, Kotlin or…

I moved/was pushed over to Python around a year ago, after writing C# for 15 years.

My Python setup is as follows:

* vscode

* pylance

* black formatter

* flake8

* python typing annotations used as much as possible

This seems to work very well with regards to autocomplete and preventing run-time errors.

One thing I do miss is proper refactoring support.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#80

Post by ritchiea »

Glyptodon wrote: post #49
smt88 wrote: post #2

We need to start ranking languages based on what people use them for. Python is certainly #1 in ML, for example, but far from #1 in web. I had a "which stack" argument with a client recently for a web server processing tons of data. He wanted to use Node (which I hate, but also use when performance doesn't matter because TypeScript is so good). I showed him that the Node library ecosystem is actually pretty weak (man…

I went from Rails to a Node-based stack with a job change recently and the backend libs we're using feel comparitively like pushing boulders uphill, which I didn't expect. (There may be more/better options than what we're using of course.)

Agreed. I find with JS I have to write a lot of code for features that could be handled with a gem in the Rails world. I miss gems like devise that had large amounts of common functionality that there is zero value in me re-implementing myself.
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