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Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

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Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#41

Post by dep_b »

aesyondu wrote: post #32
dep_b wrote: post #7

The past month I have used Python again after a few years and I have to say I didn't quite like the experience as much as before. On one hand I also used vanilla Python instead of something easier to use like Django but the amount of preventable run-time errors and the lack of IDE autocomplete support at various points was kind of off-putting after coming back from very strictly typed languages like Swift, Kotlin or…

> as dumb as JavaScript Could you elaborate on this?

Much better base packages. Date handling. Type hints. Not an OO fan but it does have real classes. IMHO handles complex applications better.

Though Python can look a bit more clunky than modern JS.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#42

Post by krab »

zusoomro wrote: post #17
smt88 wrote: post #2

We need to start ranking languages based on what people use them for. Python is certainly #1 in ML, for example, but far from #1 in web. I had a "which stack" argument with a client recently for a web server processing tons of data. He wanted to use Node (which I hate, but also use when performance doesn't matter because TypeScript is so good). I showed him that the Node library ecosystem is actually pretty weak (man…

Just curious, what other server side languages do you feel have a better library ecosystem than Node/JS?

Python.

The performance lacks somewhat and the debugging tools are not as mature as JVM's. But the libraries, frameworks, and overall development productivity are great.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#43

Post by whynotminot »

pjmlp wrote: post #24
tomohawk wrote: post #15

Of the top 10, only Java has experienced a year on year drop. So, at least some of the gains are at the expense of Java. For C and C++, you're probably not going to reach for Python as a replacement. It's not like in the 90s when these were considered general purpose. If you're using them these days, it's more likely due to needing to use them. Java is still used for a lot of other things where a language like Python…

On my area of work only Java and .NET get to play, and in what concerns UNIX like platforms most customers only care about Java. The only one that is growing, although I rather not, is Go, as we now start to jump into the same container bandwagon as everyone else. And even there it isn't taking anything away from our Java/.NET setups, rather complements them.

If you need more speed than Python can offer, but still care about developer productivity, Go is pretty great.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#44

Post by mcovalt »

ericvsmith wrote: post #36
kzrdude wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dataclasses are the best recent addition to Python, IMO, maybe tied with ordered dicts. Python definitely doesn't have conceptual simplicity, because there are many competing concepts in the language, and lack of focus on uniformity. (Example - enums are implemented with a metaclass and dataclasses with a class decorator - arguably the latter is the wrong choice, because it is already evident it limits what kind of f…

Author of dataclasses here. > (Example - enums are implemented with a metaclass and dataclasses with a class decorator - arguably the latter is the wrong choice, because it is already evident it limits what kind of features can be added to dataclasses). I'm curious about what features can't be added to dataclasses because it's not using a metaclass. If anything, I think that not using a metaclasses is a good thing: i…

Thanks for not using metaclasses for dataclasses. I’m looking forward to all libraries replacing metaclasses. For instance, in Django, I think all their metaclasses can be replaced by __init__subclass__. The main issue I have with them is how difficult it can be to compose a new abstract class using upstream classes with them.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#45

Post by noitpmeder »

ericvsmith wrote: post #36
kzrdude wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dataclasses are the best recent addition to Python, IMO, maybe tied with ordered dicts. Python definitely doesn't have conceptual simplicity, because there are many competing concepts in the language, and lack of focus on uniformity. (Example - enums are implemented with a metaclass and dataclasses with a class decorator - arguably the latter is the wrong choice, because it is already evident it limits what kind of f…

Author of dataclasses here. > (Example - enums are implemented with a metaclass and dataclasses with a class decorator - arguably the latter is the wrong choice, because it is already evident it limits what kind of features can be added to dataclasses). I'm curious about what features can't be added to dataclasses because it's not using a metaclass. If anything, I think that not using a metaclasses is a good thing: i…

I love dataclasses, incredibly simple to use but so useful. My only gripe is no first-class support for "__slots__".

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#46

Post by stevedonovan »

rusk wrote: post #40
dep_b wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using PyCharm, if you have anything better than that don't hesitate. But the type annotations are obviously something that also needs to be added to all other code I touch, not just my own.

I’ve used PyCharm from time to time and I find it great but I kind of feel like you need a different approach. Coming from Java it made sense but Python is a different mindset once you get into it. I think you’re far better off treating Python as a highly structured scripting language and using an advanced text editor. I’ve come to believe that these very powerful IDEs are a kind of a window dressing that makes the m…

Although arguably a more 'difficult' language I sleep much better at night when using Rust, because Python is always in a hurry to get a wrong program running. So then, one has to test like hell. So I feel I'm still ahead of the game.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#47

Post by tigr »

dep_b wrote: post #7

The past month I have used Python again after a few years and I have to say I didn't quite like the experience as much as before. On one hand I also used vanilla Python instead of something easier to use like Django but the amount of preventable run-time errors and the lack of IDE autocomplete support at various points was kind of off-putting after coming back from very strictly typed languages like Swift, Kotlin or…

What IDE do you use, that doesn’t have full autocomplete support?

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#48

Post by slashdev »

_lbaq wrote: post #3

Python is certainly popular, but the TIOBE Index ranking is not credible. Quote: "The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. " According to this index, "Logo", beats out Rust, Scala, Kotlin, and Cobol. I cannot remind myself when I last time saw a course, book or even any source code covering Logo. This must be some very poorly vetted, automatically collected…

They rank C number 1. There is no way that reflects reality.

JavaScript is easily number one for reasons that will surprise nobody. On the WakaTime public leaderboards it dominates to such an extent that I think programmers spend more time writing JavaScript than all the other languages combined. I don't know if that generalizes to the broader population, but it gives one an idea how ubiquitous it is.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#49

Post by Glyptodon »

smt88 wrote: post #2

We need to start ranking languages based on what people use them for. Python is certainly #1 in ML, for example, but far from #1 in web. I had a "which stack" argument with a client recently for a web server processing tons of data. He wanted to use Node (which I hate, but also use when performance doesn't matter because TypeScript is so good). I showed him that the Node library ecosystem is actually pretty weak (man…

I went from Rails to a Node-based stack with a job change recently and the backend libs we're using feel comparitively like pushing boulders uphill, which I didn't expect. (There may be more/better options than what we're using of course.)

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#50

Post by pjmlp »

whynotminot wrote: post #43
pjmlp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On my area of work only Java and .NET get to play, and in what concerns UNIX like platforms most customers only care about Java. The only one that is growing, although I rather not, is Go, as we now start to jump into the same container bandwagon as everyone else. And even there it isn't taking anything away from our Java/.NET setups, rather complements them.

If you need more speed than Python can offer, but still care about developer productivity, Go is pretty great.

Python is ideal as BASIC replacement and scripting language, for being a glue language for C and C++ libraries, almost any language can do that.

As for Go, when they adopt generics, until then I rather spend my productivity in Java and .NET land, and only deal with it in the context of containers eco-system.

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