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Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

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Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#51

Post by onox »

whynotminot wrote: post #43
pjmlp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On my area of work only Java and .NET get to play, and in what concerns UNIX like platforms most customers only care about Java. The only one that is growing, although I rather not, is Go, as we now start to jump into the same container bandwagon as everyone else. And even there it isn't taking anything away from our Java/.NET setups, rather complements them.

If you need more speed than Python can offer, but still care about developer productivity, Go is pretty great.

What are good reasons to choose Go? If I need a language for non-scripting tasks, I would choose Ada, which is very easy to read, has a nice type system and generics, performance, and you could statically compile everything if you wanted.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#52

Post by madcow00 »

st1x7 wrote: post #14

And they have C as number one? Visual Basic ranked higher than JavaScript? Groovy (!?) higher than Go, Swift and Ruby? R higher than SQL? What a joke the TIOBE index is.

I am also surprised that JavaScript is ranked so low.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#53

Post by CivBase »

taffer wrote: post #6
_lbaq wrote: post #3

Python is certainly popular, but the TIOBE Index ranking is not credible. Quote: "The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. " According to this index, "Logo", beats out Rust, Scala, Kotlin, and Cobol. I cannot remind myself when I last time saw a course, book or even any source code covering Logo. This must be some very poorly vetted, automatically collected…

That C is supposed to be the most popular language makes the whole ranking questionable. The stackoverflow ranking[1] corresponds much more to my own experience in real life. [1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#most-popular-...

C is the most popular language for embedded systems development by a huge margin.

StackOverflow is also a place for asking questions. C is a relatively simple language and one which has been around for longer than most developers have been alive. There may just not be much left to ask about it.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#54

Post by ericvsmith »

noitpmeder wrote: post #45
ericvsmith wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author of dataclasses here. > (Example - enums are implemented with a metaclass and dataclasses with a class decorator - arguably the latter is the wrong choice, because it is already evident it limits what kind of features can be added to dataclasses). I'm curious about what features can't be added to dataclasses because it's not using a metaclass. If anything, I think that not using a metaclasses is a good thing: i…

I love dataclasses, incredibly simple to use but so useful. My only gripe is no first-class support for "__slots__".

I have a decorator to add support for slots: https://github.com/ericvsmith/dataclasses/blob/master/datacl... (although I'll admit I haven't tested it in a while).

The reason it's not an option by default is because it would be the one case where the decorator would have to return a new class, and I didn't want to do that on the first version. As it is, @dataclass just modifies an existing class. I might bite the bullet add a slots option, and we've had discussions on adding a language feature to automatically add slots to a class, based on annotations and maybe some other magic. If we did that, we wouldn't need to return a new class. But it's not a front-burner task for me.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#55

Post by partyboat1586 »

Glyptodon wrote: post #49
smt88 wrote: post #2

We need to start ranking languages based on what people use them for. Python is certainly #1 in ML, for example, but far from #1 in web. I had a "which stack" argument with a client recently for a web server processing tons of data. He wanted to use Node (which I hate, but also use when performance doesn't matter because TypeScript is so good). I showed him that the Node library ecosystem is actually pretty weak (man…

I went from Rails to a Node-based stack with a job change recently and the backend libs we're using feel comparitively like pushing boulders uphill, which I didn't expect. (There may be more/better options than what we're using of course.)

What libs are you using? I'm using Typescript with Tsoa and Objection and it's pretty good.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#56

Post by stOneskull »

rozab wrote: post #9
_lbaq wrote: post #3

Python is certainly popular, but the TIOBE Index ranking is not credible. Quote: "The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. " According to this index, "Logo", beats out Rust, Scala, Kotlin, and Cobol. I cannot remind myself when I last time saw a course, book or even any source code covering Logo. This must be some very poorly vetted, automatically collected…

It's just a complete joke. https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/visual-basic-dotnet/

why?

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#57

Post by AMerrit »

pjmlp wrote: post #24
tomohawk wrote: post #15

Of the top 10, only Java has experienced a year on year drop. So, at least some of the gains are at the expense of Java. For C and C++, you're probably not going to reach for Python as a replacement. It's not like in the 90s when these were considered general purpose. If you're using them these days, it's more likely due to needing to use them. Java is still used for a lot of other things where a language like Python…

On my area of work only Java and .NET get to play, and in what concerns UNIX like platforms most customers only care about Java. The only one that is growing, although I rather not, is Go, as we now start to jump into the same container bandwagon as everyone else. And even there it isn't taking anything away from our Java/.NET setups, rather complements them.

This sounds very similar to the shop I'm in. Go isn't replacing any of our legacy Java stuff, but we have new tooling to supplement the legacy stuff built in Go.

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#58

Post by loblollyboy »

dep_b wrote: post #7

The past month I have used Python again after a few years and I have to say I didn't quite like the experience as much as before. On one hand I also used vanilla Python instead of something easier to use like Django but the amount of preventable run-time errors and the lack of IDE autocomplete support at various points was kind of off-putting after coming back from very strictly typed languages like Swift, Kotlin or…

Pycharm autocomplete is very good - I don’t know if that is what you mean by autocomplete support

Requests is one of the modules that had more change on 2-3, but being basically the most popular language (for good reason), it’s pretty easy to find documentation for either version. I imagine a lot more than for Phoenix/elixir whatever that is.

I think you’re being difficult for the sake of being difficult. I am not a leet programmer and that is why I use python- it does everything for you very well and no more. If you want more “cruft” pip install cruft

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#59

Post by out_of_protocol »

zusoomro wrote: post #17
smt88 wrote: post #2

We need to start ranking languages based on what people use them for. Python is certainly #1 in ML, for example, but far from #1 in web. I had a "which stack" argument with a client recently for a web server processing tons of data. He wanted to use Node (which I hate, but also use when performance doesn't matter because TypeScript is so good). I showed him that the Node library ecosystem is actually pretty weak (man…

Just curious, what other server side languages do you feel have a better library ecosystem than Node/JS?

Depends what you mean by "library ecosystem". If it's raw number of packages then npm is number one. On direct opposite side of spectrum you can find e.g. Elixir/Phoenix - relatively small number of packages in registry but even built-in stuff covers 99% of what you want - and makes this effortless for you. E.g. after single `mix phx.new YourAppName` You get

* Pre-confugured prod/dev/test environments

* Preconfigured webpack for the environments above

* DB migrations

* telemetry/metrics with live dashboard

etc

P.S. encrypted signed cookies, changesets (validations for db models or arbitrary forms), clustering, websocket stuff, "liveview" serverside rendering ...

Re: Python overtakes Java to become the second-most popular programming language

#60

Post by z3t4 »

Glyptodon wrote: post #49
smt88 wrote: post #2

We need to start ranking languages based on what people use them for. Python is certainly #1 in ML, for example, but far from #1 in web. I had a "which stack" argument with a client recently for a web server processing tons of data. He wanted to use Node (which I hate, but also use when performance doesn't matter because TypeScript is so good). I showed him that the Node library ecosystem is actually pretty weak (man…

I went from Rails to a Node-based stack with a job change recently and the backend libs we're using feel comparitively like pushing boulders uphill, which I didn't expect. (There may be more/better options than what we're using of course.)

You are probably using TypeScript. Try vanilla Node/JS if you want a faster Rails.
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