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Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

thelocal.dk

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Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#201

Post by xvilka »

hedora wrote: post #200
ericmay wrote: post #2

> Denmark, the world's biggest producer of mink fur, said Wednesday it would cull all of the country's minks after a mutated version of the new coronavirus was detected at its mink farms and had spread to people. Questions: 1. Is this worrisome? 2. If Denmark is catching this, should we be concerned that the virus has mutated in other animals and has thus far gone undetected?

Most viruses breed in “reservoir” populations, then cross species with unpredictable effect. This is why we had a “bird flu” or “pig flu”, and so on. Coronaviruses cross between mammals all the time, mutate, and create new strains. This is why there is no cold vaccine (and why the flu vaccine changes each year, and is usually only 60-80% effective). So, to answer your questions: (1) It is not any more worrisome than…

> the food chain would collapse

It's necessary for the world to realize breeding livestock like we do now is unsustainable. Either we go vegan, lab meat or hybrid agriculture. But the current industry is the dead end.

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#203

Post by jackdeansmith »

eloff wrote: post #175
onion2k wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Environmentally plastic is definitely worse, but the quantity of plastic used is tiny compared to the rest of the oil industry. The moral benefit comes from not farming animals to only use their fur. It's cruel and wasteful, and we have synthetic fur that's actually better than the real thing for warmth. The reason real fur is still used is because it's cheaper, which should tell you a lot about the conditions the an…

I disagree, I would guess plastic has less overall cost to the environment. Think of the land and energy used raising food for the minks. Since neither of us are giving an empirical analysis, it's just one opinion vs another.

Doesn't seem like there's a lot of research, but the one study I could find seems to agree that specifically the climate impact of natural fur is quite a bit higher than faux fur: https://www.cedelft.eu/en/publications/download/1538

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#204

Post by sxv »

Vrondi wrote: post #154
Devils-Avocado wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would consider it the danger of lockdown. We guarantee that the virus is still festering somewhere on the planet, and that vulnerable populations remain around the world, risking flareups. With zero response - ie. what we do for influenza - we establish herd immunity over a short, sharp period, and the virus immediately falls over. In any case, even if this mink-mutant variant is slightly deadlier, the data from Sw…

No competent medical professional ever uses the term "herd immunity" in any instance where they are not talking about a vaccine. Without a vaccine to _create_ herd immunity, what you are proposing is just sitting back and willfully letting huge numbers of people die, willfully allowing the virus to mutate unchecked as it spreads unchecked, etc. You should really give this a listen: https://maximumfun.org/episodes/saw…

I tried to listen to this but the basis of their argument is "if one person dies it's too many", which is a knee-jerk reaction that fails to weigh the possible options and outcomes in a thorough manner. Note that the hosts are not specialists in this field and the vibe of the podcast is more comedy than science. I also take issue with your opening: "no competent medical professional ever", which is doomed to be a faulty generalization, and a name-calling one at that.

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#206

Post by klyrs »

hedora wrote: post #200
ericmay wrote: post #2

> Denmark, the world's biggest producer of mink fur, said Wednesday it would cull all of the country's minks after a mutated version of the new coronavirus was detected at its mink farms and had spread to people. Questions: 1. Is this worrisome? 2. If Denmark is catching this, should we be concerned that the virus has mutated in other animals and has thus far gone undetected?

Most viruses breed in “reservoir” populations, then cross species with unpredictable effect. This is why we had a “bird flu” or “pig flu”, and so on. Coronaviruses cross between mammals all the time, mutate, and create new strains. This is why there is no cold vaccine (and why the flu vaccine changes each year, and is usually only 60-80% effective). So, to answer your questions: (1) It is not any more worrisome than…

> This is why we had a “bird flu” or “pig flu”, and so on.

Delightful news, a case of H1N2 (swine flu) was reported in Canada today... 2020 ain't done yet

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#207

Post by hedora »

xvilka wrote: post #201
hedora wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most viruses breed in “reservoir” populations, then cross species with unpredictable effect. This is why we had a “bird flu” or “pig flu”, and so on. Coronaviruses cross between mammals all the time, mutate, and create new strains. This is why there is no cold vaccine (and why the flu vaccine changes each year, and is usually only 60-80% effective). So, to answer your questions: (1) It is not any more worrisome than…

> the food chain would collapse It's necessary for the world to realize breeding livestock like we do now is unsustainable. Either we go vegan, lab meat or hybrid agriculture. But the current industry is the dead end.

I wasn’t talking about an agricultural collapse. I mean the natural food chain will collapse.

If you kill all the mammals, then the birds of prey will go extinct, and stuff the mammals eat will overrun what’s left.

If you don’t, then the mammals will keep spreading all sorts of pandemics.

For example, if you live in Silicon Valley, start feeding the squirrels in the woods near you. Eventually, they’ll give you the Bubonic Plague.

The plague is not a big deal these days, thanks to antibiotics, but this is an entire hemisphere away from where it hit, and hundreds of years later.

It wouldn’t surprise me if you could already catch covid from a squirrel if you tried hard enough.

Apparently people catch it from bats fairly regularly, and on average, they don’t get nearly as close to humans as an average rodent would.

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#209

Post by hedora »

klyrs wrote: post #206
hedora wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most viruses breed in “reservoir” populations, then cross species with unpredictable effect. This is why we had a “bird flu” or “pig flu”, and so on. Coronaviruses cross between mammals all the time, mutate, and create new strains. This is why there is no cold vaccine (and why the flu vaccine changes each year, and is usually only 60-80% effective). So, to answer your questions: (1) It is not any more worrisome than…

> This is why we had a “bird flu” or “pig flu”, and so on. Delightful news, a case of H1N2 (swine flu) was reported in Canada today... 2020 ain't done yet

Great. For what it’s worth, the 2009 pandemic strain of H1N1 was spreading around the bay area in 2018, and it didn’t even make news.

I can’t remember if H1N2 is better or worse than it.

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#210

Post by _-___________-_ »

threeseed wrote: post #166
Devils-Avocado wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would consider it the danger of lockdown. We guarantee that the virus is still festering somewhere on the planet, and that vulnerable populations remain around the world, risking flareups. With zero response - ie. what we do for influenza - we establish herd immunity over a short, sharp period, and the virus immediately falls over. In any case, even if this mink-mutant variant is slightly deadlier, the data from Sw…

In Sweden it hasn't been reduced to near zero and the trend has it rising to 100+ a day. https://covid19.healthdata.org/sweden People love to bring up Sweden but they have never experienced dealing with COVID-19 in winter where it is up to 20x more contagious as everyone moves indoors.

Right now the average high in large parts of Sweden is below 0°C. And your link leads to data from the output of a model, not actual recorded deaths.
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