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Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

thelocal.dk

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Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#191

Post by saalweachter »

ashtonkem wrote: post #62
abeppu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are minks riskier than average? Is it because of biological similarity (but then, there are lots of other mammals), or because of the conditions they're kept in? Naively, I might have just expected that cows or pigs or sheep would be the highest risks in aggregate, just because of numbers.

Pigs tend to be a high risk due to both their proximity to humans, and because they’re genetically close enough to use that they’re a disease transmission risk. It’s believed that the 1918 flu pandemic mutated in a pig before hopping back to the first human victim.

There's also another factor to consider in interspecies infections.

Over-fitting.

A virus "trained" on multiple species is targeting biology that is ubiquitous in higher life. The wider range of species a disease can infect, the less likely an individual member of a species is to have genetic variation that leaves it not susceptible to the disease, and the worse an outbreak is likely to be.

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#192

Post by macspoofing »

Vrondi wrote: post #154
Devils-Avocado wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would consider it the danger of lockdown. We guarantee that the virus is still festering somewhere on the planet, and that vulnerable populations remain around the world, risking flareups. With zero response - ie. what we do for influenza - we establish herd immunity over a short, sharp period, and the virus immediately falls over. In any case, even if this mink-mutant variant is slightly deadlier, the data from Sw…

No competent medical professional ever uses the term "herd immunity" in any instance where they are not talking about a vaccine. Without a vaccine to _create_ herd immunity, what you are proposing is just sitting back and willfully letting huge numbers of people die, willfully allowing the virus to mutate unchecked as it spreads unchecked, etc. You should really give this a listen: https://maximumfun.org/episodes/saw…

And if there is no (reliable) vaccine?

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#193

Post by alliao »

rvense wrote: post #179
denkmoon wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fwiw, cotton crops are incredibly water intensive. Probably a better solution than factory farming animals or releasing more plastics into the environment, but it's not perfect either.

I hear hemp is pretty good on all counts, though. But definitely buy less clothes, take better care of them, and make sure to give/sell the good ones you have but don't wear to second hand shops instead of just throwing them away.

I went from a traditional dryer to a heatpump by bosch and I think my clothes just gained another 5yrs of lives... not sure if it's temperature related (80c vs 50c or so) but my clothes no longer pill at all

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#194

Post by whyenot »

bpodgursky wrote: post #155
ada1981 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was banned but the ban was lifted a few years ago by Trump.

... at the urging of pre-pandemic Fauci Edit: It's literally true, you idiots. Stop downvoting: https://covid19data.com/2020/05/03/dr-fauci-backed-controver... https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan...

Both links you provided appear to be for the same article, just from two different sources. There is nothing in the article about Fauci "urging" anyone to lift the ban on gain of function research. He did defend the research being done in China and the ban was lifted by NIH in December 2017, though.

Also, calling people who downvoted you "idiots" is not the road towards meaningful discussion.

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#195

Post by smabie »

Sharlin wrote: post #9

I hope this hastens the end of factory farming animals for their fur, as a tiny silver lining to this whole coronavirus situation.

The minks/genes of the minks have done very well for themself being farmed. They are much better off in an evolutionary sense now that they have a symbiotic relationship with people. Just like cows, chickens, horses etc.

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#196

Post by bborud »

kylebenzle wrote: post #159
Sharlin wrote: post #9

I hope this hastens the end of factory farming animals for their fur, as a tiny silver lining to this whole coronavirus situation.

Because everyone wearing plastic fabrics is somehow better?

That’s a non sequitur.

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#197

Post by smabie »

Razengan wrote: post #89

This is fucking dystopian and despicable. Reminds me of "2M chickens to be killed in US processing plants due to lack of employees" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22993157 Just reading these headlines puts a damper on my ability to find joy in anything for a while. The words "cull millions" should not be happening to anything, in any sane world. How are people so fucking desensitized to the grim practices of fa…

Wait, so you're saying you want aliens to come and kill all humans, including you?

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#198

Post by timr »

vecinu wrote: post #143
Devils-Avocado wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would consider it the danger of lockdown. We guarantee that the virus is still festering somewhere on the planet, and that vulnerable populations remain around the world, risking flareups. With zero response - ie. what we do for influenza - we establish herd immunity over a short, sharp period, and the virus immediately falls over. In any case, even if this mink-mutant variant is slightly deadlier, the data from Sw…

You mention the IFR but what about the long term implications of so many people catching COVID and having reduced lung capacity or long term damage? Can we please address this fact that scares a lot of us? We already know the death rate is low for groups that are not at risk but it seems even healthy people are suffering from "long COVID" with serious long term implications.

"what about the long term implications of so many people catching COVID and having reduced lung capacity or long term damage?"

There is almost no evidence of either in mild-to-moderate cases of Covid-19 (i.e. the vast majority of cases). People who have been on ventilators, or hospitalized for extended periods due to severe illness are a different story, as ventilators themselves often cause lung damage. The scariest anecdotes that have been widely circulated online have come from ventilated or hospitalized patients with severe illness.

Beyond these anecdotes, stories of "long covid" thus far are predominantly based on anecdote and self-reporting of symptoms, and the symptom profiles that you hear are frequently vague and/or unverifiable ("brain fog") and in most cases, not significantly different than you might see with any respiratory virus.

For example, here is a report from the CDC that was widely reported as evidence that "35% of covid cases had long-term illness". However, "long-term" here, is defined as "three weeks", and "illness" was defined as a spectrum of mild symptoms that resemble any flu-like illness, such as fatigue, cough and congestion:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6930e1.htm

Even more specific studies have had serious problems. There have been a few reports of cardiac inflammation and other specific clinical signs in otherwise healthy people. To date, most of these have been debunked for statistical problems. For example, it was widely reported that Division I athletes were found to have heart inflammation after mild Covid-19 infections, which led the Big10 to start screening athletes with MRI before play. Subsequently, so few abnormalities have been found that doctors are now calling for the rule to be rescinded:

https://www.si.com/college/2020/10/28/big-ten-covid-protocol...

https://images.saymedia-content.com/.image/cs_srgb/MTc2NDI1M...

In short, the science of "long-term covid" exceptionally poor, and I caution you that most of what you're reading online is rumor and speculation.

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#199

Post by timr »

threeseed wrote: post #166
Devils-Avocado wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would consider it the danger of lockdown. We guarantee that the virus is still festering somewhere on the planet, and that vulnerable populations remain around the world, risking flareups. With zero response - ie. what we do for influenza - we establish herd immunity over a short, sharp period, and the virus immediately falls over. In any case, even if this mink-mutant variant is slightly deadlier, the data from Sw…

In Sweden it hasn't been reduced to near zero and the trend has it rising to 100+ a day. https://covid19.healthdata.org/sweden People love to bring up Sweden but they have never experienced dealing with COVID-19 in winter where it is up to 20x more contagious as everyone moves indoors.

> In Sweden it hasn't been reduced to near zero and the trend has it rising to 100+ a day.

That is incorrect. Sweden is currently seeing about 2,000 cases a day, and 5 deaths a day (7-day moving averages):

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Today, they had thirteen deaths, nationwide, which was a statistically abnormal spike. The previous day was 1.

The IHME site you are linking is reporting the output of a model, not actual data on deaths.

Re: Denmark to cull millions of minks over mutated coronavirus

#200

Post by hedora »

ericmay wrote: post #2

> Denmark, the world's biggest producer of mink fur, said Wednesday it would cull all of the country's minks after a mutated version of the new coronavirus was detected at its mink farms and had spread to people. Questions: 1. Is this worrisome? 2. If Denmark is catching this, should we be concerned that the virus has mutated in other animals and has thus far gone undetected?

Most viruses breed in “reservoir” populations, then cross species with unpredictable effect.

This is why we had a “bird flu” or “pig flu”, and so on.

Coronaviruses cross between mammals all the time, mutate, and create new strains. This is why there is no cold vaccine (and why the flu vaccine changes each year, and is usually only 60-80% effective).

So, to answer your questions: (1) It is not any more worrisome than the news we had back in March. (2) It certainly has already and will continue to mutate in other animals. Should we be concerned? I guess. I made peace with this inevitable outcome months ago.

I feel sorry for the minks. I hope they don’t start testing other types of mammals and then decide to pursue wholesale eradication of local ecosystems and livestock.

Doing that is clearly a non-starter (the food chain would collapse). However, it is necessary-but-not-sufficient to prevent new coronavirus strains from popping up.

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