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Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

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Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Flatscreen" as a right-wing racist dogwhistle term https://old.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/jjlvz0...

I hope you are trolling because this dogwhistle nonsense is getting out of hand.

You have an objection to the content, instead of an ad-hom attack on me?

"Having a flatscreen TV is a very high priority for poor people in the US".

1) TV is comparatively cheap entertainment.

2) Flatscreens are the only kind of TV produced in years.

3) Is that objectively "a very high priority" for "poor people"? Citation needed.

4) Being poor sucks, and things which make life more pleasant would be a completely understandable high priority.

5) Obtaining things which make life better is a very high priority in all stratas of American life.

And yet the comment ""Having a flatscreen TV is a very high priority for poor people in the US" doesn't sound filled with empathy, understanding, approval, celebration that even poor people can afford material goods in America, does it?

Instead, somehow, it sounds judgemental, critical, accusatory. In the middle of a thread about a Raspberry Pi which was designed and made to be cheap so that poor kids have a chance of computing access, with the context "even poor people have TVs" who would throw in that comment and why?

From an opinion piece[1]: "The language of GOP racial politics is heavy on euphemisms that allow the speaker to deny any responsibility for the racial content of his message. [...] Regardless of how they were intended, poor people and minorities sense that with those comments Gingrich is winking — some call it “dog whistling” — at certain white audiences by intimating that black people are lazy, happy to live off the government and lacking any intellect."

That's obviously what happened here. The comment "Having a flatscreen TV is a very high priority for poor people in the US" does not say "poor people value education and it's a good thing even poor people have access to a TV where they could plug in a Raspberry Pi", it says "of course poor people will have a TV, they're lazy and watch TV all day and feel entitled to the luxury of a flatscreen, right guys?" wink wink, allowing the poster to deny any responsibility because "many poor people own televisions".

The Center for American Progress paper "Moving away from Racial Stereotypes"[2] says "The notion that poor people, particularly poor people of color, are lazy is the most significant and persistent stereotype affecting efforts to address poverty in our country." and "It’s notable that labels suggesting laziness or lack of effort that have been used to describe African Americans are also applied to poor people more generally." and "Getting tough on poor people is a way to try to win votes during elections, derail legislation, or distract attention from positions that would otherwise be unpopular. Given modern-day sensibilities, however, very few single out groups directly—instead of using words like “black” or “Hispanic,” they raise stereotypes and employ code words that let audiences know exactly which groups they are actually talking about without actually saying so" and "Over the years, progressives have contributed to the continued association of African Americans and Hispanics with poverty"

That is, there's a certain demographic characterised roughly by older, white, 1950s, Republican, Fox-News watching, to whom "poor" means "black" and "TV" means "lazy", "flatscreen" means "entitled luxury" and "high priority TV" means "irresponsible" or "stupid", and the whole sentence is completely innocently deniable because everyone has a TV so it's just plain fact and completely innocent.

The only hint is that if it were a completely innocent observation, there would be no need to say it at all, no need to single out the poor, no need to mention "high priority", no need to mention "flatscreen". You'd just say "people who can afford a Raspberry Pi 400 probably have a TV, which is nice". And that was already said one comment before in the chain.

[1] https://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/juan-williams/207295-...

[2] https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2...

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) You can hook this up to a TV. 2) Webcam isn't strictly necessary: You'll be able to "see" your teacher, type in chat, virtually raise your hand, etc. 3) This enables more advanced STEM (The "T" portion, really) not because it's a desktop but because of the built-in 40-pin connector opening it up to the massive catalog of projects that exist for the Pi platform already. 4) Perfect is the enemy of the good: You're c…

> 2) Webcam isn't strictly necessary Not in our school district (Mass), students are required to have cameras on and showing most of their face.

Well, you should probably fix that, but bureaucratic facism doesn't seem particularly relevant to whether something is useful for learning.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many households in this situation have an extra monitor lying around to plug this into You just need a television. In a single household it wouldn't even necessarily need to be an extra television, unless it's some kind of truly abusive household where the kid's not allowed to pre-empt the family TV to attend school. Of course, in a multi-kid household, yes - one screen per kid would be needed. plus they'll need…

> It's not the form factor. It's the OS. A fully-open OS, versus a locked-down OS. Raspberry Pi 400 is what ChromeOS/Chromebooks could have been if Google cared about making computing empower people, rather than seeing it as a tool to manipulate them through adverts.

The locked down nature of the Chromebook is also (if not primarily) about security too.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#654

This blows my mind. I know, it's much more incremental than it is revolutionary, but I think the form factor achieves a much greater degree of access for many people than a typical Pi whose bare hardware may be a lot more intimidating. Now, it's "just" a computer, which happens to expose a 40-pin connector for the standard Pi hardware fun. And unlike other options you might find, this has the massive built-in communi…

There was a stretch when you had Gateway, eMachines, Dell (et al) in competition that could have resulted in machines that cheap if the market for desktops hadn't died (relatively). But even now Dell's lowest-end desktop is $350, and that's with an i3. I wouldn't be surprised if that's an engineered price point because lesser hardware at lower prices can't even be shipped and make a profit. And frankly, if I remember…

There's also the second hand market. My first PC was a used Compaq. Weighed about 50 lbs too.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#655
post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting the POE hat in there somewhere, somehow, would be pretty neat.

The PoE hat - at least the existing one as we know it - won't work for the 400. Besides the 40pin header it also uses another 2x2 header behind the magjack, which is where it receives the input from the ethernet jack. Oddly, this board spots a separate ethernet transformer which does support PoE, but there's no circuity to tap that, and nowhere to add it. Which begs for a modification, but seems like missed opportuni…

PoE seems off for the target audience of this device. In all likelihood the most prevalent mode of network access is going to be via wifi.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#656
post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That 40 pin connector is a big STEM deal. yes really, this is nearly spectrum-opposite of a chromebook (desgined to keep you in a prebuilt ecosystem)

If you can write code to drive hardware from pinouts I think you can click a button to enable Linux apps.

Writing code means not requiring Linux apps.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or used notebook, 6 years old Dell Latitude E7440 costs $230. It is built like tank. Price of the latest model starts from $1600. https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/cty/pdp/spd/latitude-14...

Think about scalability. We need a solution for more than just one person. We need a solution for 1,000 kids in my town, 5,000 in surrounding districts, and I have no idea how many state-wide. How many such laptops can you find? How much effort will it take to source a dozen here, and dozen there, from hundreds of different sources? Repurposing old hardware only works at a small scale. If there were 50 kids in the sc…

They are a commodity, sold by a truckload, come from replacement of big corporations' PCs. Might not be good enough to give a whole state the same model though.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 40 pin connector is a big STEM deal. First peripheral I would sell is an add on breadboard station with lots of good sensors, lights, input controls, motor drivers and such that is buffered to prevent damage and start producing education kits.

It's also Linux based on a properly supported distro that is maintained specifically for the rpi. You can do real hacking, not "try to get this to run" hacking.

Seriously. That counts for a whole lot. Frankly, that was one of the great things about the old 8-bit computers. They were constant in some ways. You could turn them on. And then go.

What we've got here is something a lot like that. But it has a lot more power connectivity. All the things the simple machines don't have. But it's all still pretty lean too. I'm excited.

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The district couldn't secure all of the necessary Chrome Books, and some students have been left attempting remote learning via their parent's phone, or simply left behind. A cheap mass market device has some truly amazing potential to fill in these gaps at the same time that it enables more advanced S(T)EM learning than you could get with a typical cheap Chrome Book. How many households in this situation have an e…

My impression of a lot of poor areas, is that one of the first things they invest in is a TV. So they likely have a TV already. Switching between different usages of the TV they have is probably doable. Use the computer connected during day time for work, and use the TV functionality in the evenings for recreation. I agree tablets and laptops are more accessible. But I think when it comes to really learning how to us…

Sorry but this is just silly. There's nothing more real about plugging in usb devices or dragging around files on a system file browser, it's just what seems normal to you.

It would be just like telling kids in the early nineties "this GUI stuff is great and all, but the real way to interact with computers is the command line". Or even longer ago, telling kids "this terminal is nice and all, but the real way to use computers is punch cards".

I also don't think the idea that ChromeOS is too locked down to be a real learning environment for kids really holds up. If anything, it's too open. There are billions of websites out there, and thousands or however many that might be excellent learning resources or sandboxes for kids, it can just be hard to know about them/find them all. But the abstractions are just shifting around, there are plenty of full development environments on the web where you can program and host entire apps. Or you can tinker with IFTTT or Zapier to connect different hosted services and hack them to do different things you make up. There's still a lot of room for creatively using technology, I certainly wouldn't sweat pushing kids onto "regular" computers instead of chrome books or tablets (beyond just a basic introduction to broaden their horizons and let them at least understand that this other paradigm exists).

Re: Raspberry Pi 400 Desktop PC

#660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty big exaggeration considering the 4GB Raspberry Pi 4B typically sells for $55-60. This adds a keyboard and case for $10-15 on top of that.

> $55-60 let's allow a more realistic $80 delivered yes, it's a great price for a great piece of kit, don't get me wrong. but if the price is still an issue (as implied by free monitor), it shouldn't be a big exaggeration to expect to find a second hand Pi4 for $40-50

Adafruit $55 + $4.55 shipping

Amazon.com $59.43 + free shipping (1-day w/Prime)

PiShop.us $55 + $7.95 shipping

...so $60 seems very fair including shipping, not to mention this larger keyboard model will cost at least as much to ship.

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