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GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

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Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#161

Post by Mindwipe »

Rochus wrote: post #131
eznzt wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube uses encrypted signatures as a way of hiding the URL of the video. https://github.com/l1ving/youtube-dl/blob/master/youtube_dl/...

It's like closing the door and hanging the key next to the door for all to see. Definitely not an effective technical measure to protect the house. EDIT: And not to forget that Youtube hosts many CC-BY licensed videos which explicitly allow unlimited use (incl. decryption if necessary), and that Youtube has contracts with copyright collectives in most countries so for any user it is save to assume that the video is l…

> (and thus download and store for personal use is legal in most countries).

That's a highly questionable statement. Certainly, most European countries do not have such a law in all circumstances, and it's dependent on if the personal use copy is made of an asset you are licensed to have permanent access to (which you aren't of a collectively licensed work) or a broadcast for timeshifted purpose (which an on-demand asset isn't).

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#162

Post by heavyset_go »

I kind of worried that some of the value of GitHub's data is derived from knowing which developers browsed/pulled/forked/contributed to different projects, and whether or not they or their employers could be sued for breaking licenses, infringing copyright or patents, etc.

For example, Microsoft might want to know which of their former developers contributed to say WINE or ReactOS. A patent troll might want to know who pulled code that allegedly infringes their patents, so they can audit and sue their employers. The RIAA might want to know which businesses use YTDL, even if they're using it under fair use, and so on.

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#163

Post by garmaine »

Mindwipe wrote: post #157
ikeboy wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RIAA made a claim that some content violates their rights under DMCA, which in this hypothetical causes my account to be blocked. I can bring a case under the declaratory judgement act against RIAA, asking a court to decide whether the content is actually infringing. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratory_judgment I may also have a tortious interference claim, although damages are likely negligible so it's pro…

Well, I would strongly suggest you speak to a lawyer on it, but I would note this strategy only really gives you an American judgement, and the RIAA takedown would still apply in any other territory. I don't know if Github would host content where they felt there were issues in some countries and not others. Would they geofilter it as they do with Iranian contributors due to US sanctions?

Why would the RIAA takedown apply in other jurisdictions, when it cites US law?

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#164

Post by Mindwipe »

realusername wrote: post #146
delfinom wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way GitLab would escape DMCA would be to host in China or Russia (which also would get it banned by many of their customers). The US has many IP agreements with European countries and even some Asian countries, good luck escaping from it.

A lot of EU countries have explicit copyright exceptions for personal copies though due to the storage tax, so youtube-dl is legal in those countries anyways.

It wouldn't be legal in any of those territories - those explicit copyright exemptions don't apply to content that you're not licensed to have permanently or broadcasts.

European law also requires member states to have laws against breaching technical protection measures, and bypassing those isn't usually legal irrespective of personal copy exemptions. And in this case Youtube-dl was taken down because it was claimed to breach technical protection measures.

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#165

Post by garmaine »

delfinom wrote: post #98
mkl95 wrote: post #66

I think some people are missing a major point about youtube-dl's takedown. The purpose of this DMCA claim wasn't just to prevent people from downloading videos, it was to set a legal precedent for the RIAA and similar organizations to troll Github and anyone hosting public repositories with it, by linking them to "illegal downloads". By agreeing to this without any public opposition, Github has become similar to Yout…

What? GitHub has handled DMCA like this for years.

No they haven’t. This is NOT a traditional DMCA take-down. It relies on a new legal argument using a different section of the law which has a much more perverse impact.

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#166

Post by heavyset_go »

garmaine wrote: post #163
Mindwipe wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I would strongly suggest you speak to a lawyer on it, but I would note this strategy only really gives you an American judgement, and the RIAA takedown would still apply in any other territory. I don't know if Github would host content where they felt there were issues in some countries and not others. Would they geofilter it as they do with Iranian contributors due to US sanctions?

Why would the RIAA takedown apply in other jurisdictions, when it cites US law?

The US and some of its allies have signed treaties and agreements that protect IP internationally.

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#167

Post by rusk »

dheera wrote: post #158
AlexandrB wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> >"Time for a decentralized version control system?" I have to laugh at this one. Git is a decentralized VCS, that was effectively re-centralized (via Github) for the sake of convenience.

Git is not truly decentralized, in the sense that you still need to provide a few specific remote hosts, all of which could disappear due to law enforcement. Instead of one centralized server you've moved to maybe 3-4 centralized servers, which isn't that helpful against the issue at hand, especially if those servers are all within the US, Europe and other law-enforcement-cooperating countries. In a true decentralize…

> you still need to provide a few specific remote hosts

I thought this was what decentralised means in the VCS parlance ... that you have more than one “upstream” rather than a single, central one.

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#168

Post by an_opabinia »

dheera wrote: post #158
AlexandrB wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> >"Time for a decentralized version control system?" I have to laugh at this one. Git is a decentralized VCS, that was effectively re-centralized (via Github) for the sake of convenience.

Git is not truly decentralized, in the sense that you still need to provide a few specific remote hosts, all of which could disappear due to law enforcement. Instead of one centralized server you've moved to maybe 3-4 centralized servers, which isn't that helpful against the issue at hand, especially if those servers are all within the US, Europe and other law-enforcement-cooperating countries. In a true decentralize…

> provide a few specific remote hosts

Distributing node lists is sort of a solved problem isn't it?

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#169

Post by Rochus »

Mindwipe wrote: post #152
Rochus wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think youtube-dl violates any of the points in the referenced paragraph. EDIT: also note that it states "effective technological measures" ("Umgehung wirksamer technischer Massnahmen" in German); if there is no (effective) protection measure such as in Youtube then the referenced sanctions obviously don't apply (nulla poena sine lege).

Indeed, what is an effective technical protection measure is highly debatable. The only problem is the only likely chance of definitively finding out in your territory is to have a criminal action against you and see if you win in court.

> the only likely chance of definitively finding out in your territory is to have a criminal action against you and see if you win in court

The plaintiffs would have to prove that the videos that can be downloaded with youtube-dl are protected by an objectively effective technical measure and that the tool circumvents this protection, that the accused was aware of the effectiveness of the measure and the illegality of his actions.

I studied law at the University of Zurich (Switzerland) and would be calm in face of such a criminal prosecution. The plaintiff's risk of litigation would be considerable and the defendant would have little to fear.

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#170

Post by muststopmyths »

jasode wrote: post #37

Some example comments in this thread: >"People should move their youbube-dl repositories to servers hosted in Switzerland, " >"Time for a decentralized version control system?" >"The nice thing about fossil" ... those well-meaning suggestions are missing the true difficulty : The community wants a (1) Schelling Point [0] for workflow/issues/discussions/PRs that's also (2) censorship resistant. So far, (1) and (2) con…

>"Time for a decentralized version control system?"

A GitTorrent, if you will.

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