Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share • Hacker News Board

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#171

Post by koheripbal » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 2:25 PM UTC

fareesh wrote: post #94

viraptor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a nice ideal, but once the views become too extreme, it's not practical. Not many people will maintain basic civility towards a person telling them they don't deserve basic rights for example.

A high profile executive working for a corporation in Iran will be fired and possibly arrested if they start talking about the government's stance on women's rights. Likewise in the USA if some executive talks about babies' rights they'll probably be fired and some smear campaign will be launched against them. Likewise in China vocal criticism of the CCP will probably lead to bad consequences. I would encourage Ameri…

I agree. At the end of the day, who are we protecting when we silence hate speech?

Are we suggesting that we ourselves cannot handle hearing and rejecting the speech, or are we suggesting that other adults should not even hear hate speech because they might be influenced?

Either of those is a profound infantilization of the public.

I am capable of hearing hate speech and rejecting it. I trust most other mature adults can do the same. I reject the notion that anyone needs to protect me from hate speech.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#172

Post by koheripbal » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 2:26 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #66

mdifrgechd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think that's quite fair, basic civility would mean not immediately trying to frame something you disagree with as denying basic rights, and trying to have a more practical discussion about the issues.

I'm not referring to framing something ambiguous. I mean for example people openly discussing final solution to Jew problem. Are you suggesting basic civility and discussion about the issue with them?

Are you suggesting that you are not able to reject those ideas if you hear them?

Or are you suggesting that I cannot?

I am an adult. You don't need to protect me from hate-speech.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#173

Post by koheripbal » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 2:28 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #56

ColanR wrote: post #2

And this is why it's so important to maintain basic civility to everyone, regardless of political views.

what if those views aren't civil?

Then you act like an adult and reject them. Are you afraid that if you hear hate speech, you will learn to hate?

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#174

Post by gus_massa » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 2:29 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #157

wilde wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truck is at fault by being there at all. This is not acceptable behavior. They created the situation with the intent to provoke. It’s classic bullying.

That's not how traffic laws work. It's a campaign bus, not voters at a polling station. Drivers supporting another party are absolutely allowed to drive next to them.

I don't know the local laws, but isn't there a minimal distance between cars in the runway? The truck was too close to the bus.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#175

Post by chromatin » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 2:29 PM UTC

runawaybottle wrote: post #145

chromatin wrote: post #78

I would absolutely be denied opportunities for projects, publicity, promotion, and advancement in my field if I were known to have political views that deviated from the norm in my industry, which I will state for the record is hard left. Consequently, I express no personal non-work related opinions not only at work but in fact not even with “friendlies,” as loose lips sink ships. It is a shitty way to live, given ho…

So I don’t get it, did we create a situation where you cannot discuss politics at lunch with coworkers?

I assume the best in people and assume your question is earnest. I also do not implicitly agree with “we” because I don’t know you personally.

But yes, the second portion of my comment was intended to capture that even outside of work with co-worker friends I am reluctant to express opinions. Even if I am mainstream today, or on a particular issue, the winds can shift quickly.

That is a dangerous and toxic milieu.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#176

Post by koheripbal » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 2:32 PM UTC

youareostriches wrote: post #90

Ekaros wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fighting "fascisms" with fascism... I find it entirely bizarre that so large scope of population and media is fine with what is going on...

Fascism is a political strategy involving fear of change and scapegoating. If you’re trying to imply that use of force automatically translates to fascism, then you need to consider situations of community defense against fascists, which ultimately requires force. Self-defense and defending democratic rights is quite different from terroristic violence in the service of subverting democratic and human rights. I reser…

I don't think it's useful to argue semantics.

If using violence to combat opposing political speech isn't your definition of fascism, then it's as equally sinister and takes us to an equally dark place.

We have seen many examples in the last few years of people feeling so entitled to combat what they consider fascism, that they use violence against anyone they perceive as the enemy.

Maybe we don't agree on the definition of words, but this is a bad development.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#177

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 2:33 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #113

matz1 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you get people who silently support the views.

i'll bet there are still a bunch of people who silently oppose interracial marriage in the US. But... they will be dead soon and their ideas will die with them

Faulty argument. Did the fight for LGBTQ rights die out when being LGBTQ in the past was something people had to stay in the closet about? No? Then why would anyone think it will work on other viewpoints?

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#178

Post by brsg » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

another_sock wrote: post #168

brsg wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair! I think I may have confused you with the OP that responded as such to the moderate point. For what it's worth, I think you may be surprised how much you can discuss on this topic without crossing "the line" for most people. I think that if partisanship wasn't as divisive as it currently is than you'd be able to discover a lot more common ground with people. .... though definitely not online.

I definitely agree with you on that. Most people are far more likely to have a productive discussion when at least one party goes out of their way to be nuanced and careful in how they word things as well as the discussion not taking place in a performative environment (online or in front of other people.) It is definitely a lesson I have learned over time and through my own biases and misbehavior causing myself unne…

Of course, I hope that you didn't take too personally the snark in my original reply =).

At most other points in human history, our discussion probably would've been a cordial trade of livestock for bread and there would never be a reason to fear ill will. It's bummer of the 21st century that this time it was meta discussion about politics on the internet.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#179

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

youareostriches wrote: post #90

Ekaros wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fighting "fascisms" with fascism... I find it entirely bizarre that so large scope of population and media is fine with what is going on...

Fascism is a political strategy involving fear of change and scapegoating. If you’re trying to imply that use of force automatically translates to fascism, then you need to consider situations of community defense against fascists, which ultimately requires force. Self-defense and defending democratic rights is quite different from terroristic violence in the service of subverting democratic and human rights. I reser…

Authoritarianism would probably better describe the modern left and that's plenty bad, even if for different reasons.

Like many in the US, I don't support the right but I don't support the modern left either and they ought to be very worried about that.

Re: Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share

#180

Post by chromatin » Sun, Nov 01, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #151

chromatin wrote: post #78

I would absolutely be denied opportunities for projects, publicity, promotion, and advancement in my field if I were known to have political views that deviated from the norm in my industry, which I will state for the record is hard left. Consequently, I express no personal non-work related opinions not only at work but in fact not even with “friendlies,” as loose lips sink ships. It is a shitty way to live, given ho…

I applaud your ability to keep politics out of work. We created a hard rule at our company in 2016: No politics / No religion. Most humans are incapable of discussing these topics rationally, and it only serves to increase division at work. One person could not handle the idea of not being politically active at work, and we discovered after she quit that almost everyone was happier no having her toxic commentary omni…

Great comment. In fact even years ago before the current environment it was my rule to leave politics and religion out of the workplace and really focus on work. You are absolutely right that most humans cannot have a rational discussion without investing their emotions.

However what’s new(?), and tragic, is (a) omnipresent social media and/or digital footprint and (b) that discourse outside work with coworker friends — at least for me but I suspect for many of those of us working 80+ hours, our social circle is largely coworkers or industry colleagues — could massively negatively affect career.

The current environment likely leads to a sense of isolation , ironically likely shared by the /majority/ of people.