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Jailbreaking Used Teslas

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Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#211

Post by tehjoker »

bookofjoe wrote: post #209
black_puppydog wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If use of an object requires an ongoing contractual relationship with a specific entity, you don't own it. I know that people here won't be super surprised by this concept, but I still think it's worth getting the wording right. Just as with music and videos and games, I think one should be disallowed from calling something "selling", "buying" or "owning" if what's really being done is "licensing". Yeah, I'm from the…

I once read that the test of whether or not you own something is, "Can you sell it?" In this vein, movies and TV shows you "buy" from Apple, Amazon, etc. are not yours.

I don't think that's the right test. The question is do you control it? Can it be modified? Can it be defended? Transferred or loaned to someone else? Copied?

The movies and TV on streaming services are not yours because you don't control them and they can be removed at any time. Market salability is another question entirely. There are items you can own you might be prohibited from selling on an open market, such as a landmark property or a particularly destructive weapon.

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#212

Post by quintushoratius »

Dahoon wrote: post #204
GhostVII wrote: post #103

The worst part isn't even listed in the article - Tesla is remotely disabling fast charging on all salvage cars across all networks, regardless of what the actual damage is. If it was just limited to the supercharger network I would somewhat understand, it's their network and I don't think it's a huge deal to disallow salvage cars on it. But they are removing the ability to charge even at third party chargers, basica…

Any car in the EU that is changed after certification needs to be recertified or have the update tested. The day Tesla updates something that causes someone to get hurt Tesla will be sued into the ground as all software updated cars that haven't had their update tested are illegal. It is also illegal to change a car to make more HP (there's a limit, AFAICR it is at 5%) without getting it recertified. While Tesla don'…

> It baffels the mind that none of Tesla's competitors has cried foul yet.

They won't because they're either doing the same, or hoping to do the same in the near future.

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#213

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

vaccinator wrote: post #192
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia_Duster This thing is definitely not internet connected. The basic trim does not even feature a radio at all, only standard space to fit a 1-DIN radio yourself. It has manual (roll down) rear windows. I don't know about the US, but I would be surprised if you can't buy an F150 that has no internet connection?

You probably can buy one with no network connection, that the user can use, but that doesn't mean that it isn't connected for other purposes.

Eh. Why spend the cash on a chip and service when the vehicle will need to be services eventually and all info can be downloaded then?

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#214

Post by phantom784 »

MPSimmons wrote: post #190

I would be a lot more okay with them removing FSD from cars being sold if the FSD transferred to the next Tesla you bought, like a license to have the feature. That isn't the case, though. I paid for FSD on my model 3. If I trade it in for a Model Y, I don't get to transfer my purchase, but you know that they're going to charge someone else to enable FSD on that vehicle. It's double-dipping.

Do they offer a higher trade-in value if you've purchased an extra like FSD?

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#215

Post by michaelmrose »

judge2020 wrote: post #156
GhostVII wrote: post #103

The worst part isn't even listed in the article - Tesla is remotely disabling fast charging on all salvage cars across all networks, regardless of what the actual damage is. If it was just limited to the supercharger network I would somewhat understand, it's their network and I don't think it's a huge deal to disallow salvage cars on it. But they are removing the ability to charge even at third party chargers, basica…

Surely the people salvaging these cars would be happy to enter into a contract with Tesla to accept all liability (including superchargers/stations) for damages caused by the car they fixed up, then, right? Edit to add from a below comment I made: I mean more in the scenario of a cell going bad, causing a fire, then maybe blowing up the car and causing collateral damage. As I understand it, this would be covered by t…

Can't this be said of literally any car? A badly repaired car could cause a 12 car pile up and kill 17 people because the breaks or power steering failed at the wrong time. This actually seems tremendously more likely than the scenario you name. It seems like Tesla's actions are a pretty transparent effort to control the market to maximize profit.

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#216

Post by vaccinator »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #213
vaccinator wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably can buy one with no network connection, that the user can use, but that doesn't mean that it isn't connected for other purposes.

Eh. Why spend the cash on a chip and service when the vehicle will need to be services eventually and all info can be downloaded then?

good point. but real-time data is probably a bit more valuable.

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#217

Post by R0b0t1 »

enragedcacti wrote: post #193
vaccinator wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is impossible to get a car that is not connected to the internet today, unless you find out how to disconnect it yourself. This near-7-year-old link[0] always make me laugh. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1

you can go buy a brand new Honda Civic today that has no cellular modem.

Every modern car has a black box that can be subpoenaed for accident information and may expose other incidental information.

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#218

Post by AnthonyMouse »

Shivetya wrote: post #178
GhostVII wrote: post #103

The worst part isn't even listed in the article - Tesla is remotely disabling fast charging on all salvage cars across all networks, regardless of what the actual damage is. If it was just limited to the supercharger network I would somewhat understand, it's their network and I don't think it's a huge deal to disallow salvage cars on it. But they are removing the ability to charge even at third party chargers, basica…

I will be blunt, I really wish "salvage" cars had no right to exist. There is insufficient consistency between states as to what can be titled as such and still driven on our roads. You can get on the road most of the time just fixing cosmetic items and inspection in some states more concerned with emissions than much else; some states don't even check for working ABS or airbags. I think companies like Tesla are corr…

Salvage just means the insurance company paid out the policy rather than repairing the car.

A 20 year old car might have a market value of $500. If somebody keys it up and down both sides, it's totaled and gets a salvage title, because that's more than $500 worth of paint damage.

In some cases a car gets stolen, the insurance pays out because they can't find it, then later they do find it and there is nothing wrong with it but the policy is already paid out so now it has a salvage title.

It has nothing to do with the safety of the car.

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#219

Post by throwaway0a5e »

michaelmrose wrote: post #215
judge2020 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely the people salvaging these cars would be happy to enter into a contract with Tesla to accept all liability (including superchargers/stations) for damages caused by the car they fixed up, then, right? Edit to add from a below comment I made: I mean more in the scenario of a cell going bad, causing a fire, then maybe blowing up the car and causing collateral damage. As I understand it, this would be covered by t…

Can't this be said of literally any car? A badly repaired car could cause a 12 car pile up and kill 17 people because the breaks or power steering failed at the wrong time. This actually seems tremendously more likely than the scenario you name. It seems like Tesla's actions are a pretty transparent effort to control the market to maximize profit.

>Can't this be said of literally any car? A badly repaired car could cause a 12 car pile up and kill 17 people because the breaks or power steering failed at the wrong time.

Yeah you can say it if your goal is to create some political fear-mongering radio advert for some inspection program ballot initiative, doesn't make it true though.

There have been many studies about the efficacy of vehicle inspection programs. The TL;DR of them is that while throwing up a bunch of red tape can keep junk off the road and this can affect the accident rate but the effect is negligible or near the noise threshold. People in well maintained cars making bad decisions is the source of the overwhelming majority of accidents. The brakes going out on some shitbox are basically a rounding error. Salvage cars breaking for reasons having to do with whatever accident they were in is even rarer than that.

Salvage vehicles are a rounding error compared to old junk shitboxes. So take everything that studies have shown about inspection programs and move the decimal a couple places.

Re: Jailbreaking Used Teslas

#220

Post by emodendroket »

Dahoon wrote: post #204
GhostVII wrote: post #103

The worst part isn't even listed in the article - Tesla is remotely disabling fast charging on all salvage cars across all networks, regardless of what the actual damage is. If it was just limited to the supercharger network I would somewhat understand, it's their network and I don't think it's a huge deal to disallow salvage cars on it. But they are removing the ability to charge even at third party chargers, basica…

Any car in the EU that is changed after certification needs to be recertified or have the update tested. The day Tesla updates something that causes someone to get hurt Tesla will be sued into the ground as all software updated cars that haven't had their update tested are illegal. It is also illegal to change a car to make more HP (there's a limit, AFAICR it is at 5%) without getting it recertified. While Tesla don'…

Frankly a lot of stuff Tesla does makes me wonder how they can get away with it but I guess they're operating in a permissive regulatory environment.
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