Sean Connery has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Sean Connery has died

#151

Post by ljm » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

approxim8ion wrote: post #142

umvi wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I think it's a terrible mistake to hold historical figures to modern standards and morals. I'm sure there are things even the best among us do today that could be harshly judged in the future. "Of this I am quite sure, that if we open a quarrel between the past and the present, we shall find that we have lost the future" -- Winston Churchill

Some morals aren't as modern as people make them out to be when making this argument. Also interesting to use a quote from a man responsible for starving millions of innocents in a debate about morality, but that's neither here nor there.

> innocents

Not people? I'd hate to be referred to as 'an innocent'.

---

To address the main point, history is full of this. I mean, try quoting Mother Theresa and see what people will say then.

We _could_ try to cleanse history of all memorable quotes written or spoken by people who have don't have a clean track record in morality (whatever that actually is at a certain point in time) but I don't think we'd be left with all too much to learn from.

To go further into my own thought process, I'm much more in line with non-dual tantric attitudes to this than I am with what we commonly call morals these days.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#152

Post by Kye » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

“To the stars Bowen, to the stars.”

https://twitter.com/FoxAmoore/status/1322542679176187904

Re: Sean Connery has died

#153

Post by mlthoughts2018 » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:29 PM UTC

mam2 wrote: post #96

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget he was also an unapologetic advocate of spousal abuse, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mzXkbJwrN38

Thats not at all what he says in this video. He says slapping a woman is fine if she is already abusing you. I'd rather walk away than slap personally, because girls like he describe are just a waste of time from experience (even though they usually think it makes them cool lol), but he is NOT advocating abusing at all. He is advocating "slapping" (and making it clear to not punch) to END abuse.

This comment is flagrantly misogynistic. This is a ridiculous interpretation and the mental gymnastics to try to distinguish “slapping” from abuse, or to do victim blaming by saying it’s qualified by the woman already abusing you (wtf?) - it’s really inappropriate and upsetting to see some on HN making this argument.

If you aren’t realizing that your comment is sincerely amplifying misogyny, you need a sensitivity training course or something of the sort.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#154

Post by jowsie » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #94

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a very weird take on my comments. We didn’t make Sean Connery identify as “bad” - he did that, and did so unremorsefully and unapologetically. He didn’t want to come back to the “good” side. I find it most perplexing of all that you would want to do mental gymnastics to defend someone like that or minimize the highlighting of genuine harm that person did by trying to disingenuously act like it’s more nuanced tha…

For all the sins of past societies, they at least had the good grace and civility to regard those who spoke ill of the recently dead (even if deserved) with scorn. There are times where, as F. Scott Fitzgerald once wrote, " To be kind is more important than to be right. " Let's celebrate the good parts and forgive the bad parts of a person's life at it's end, just as we would want others to do for us. Leave chewing o…

I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that once I'm dead, people can say or think whatever they like about me. I won't care, I'll be dead.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#155

Post by chordol » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

leoc wrote: post #109

Bluestein wrote: post #35

Merchant Navy, milkman, nude model, lifeguard, truck driver, bricklayer, boxer, bodybuilder, street brawler (he once beat a gang of four while hanging out with Michael Caine, and another time, he defeated six people in a street fight.) ... ... and, finally, backstage maintenance worker at the King’s Theatre in Edinburgh. The rest is history.- A 20th century icon.- RIP.-

He also recorded lovely narrations for Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG4wWO5HV3c&list=PLVJ2vTa3CV... and Britten's Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKjQlF-2WiA&list=PLVJ2vTa3CV... , apparently for charity in a spare evening between Bond shoots.

Thank you so much for the link to him narrating Peter and the Wolf. I’m listening to it now, and it’s fantastic!

Re: Sean Connery has died

#156

Post by pbourke » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:36 PM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #137

hliyan wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about this a lot. I love meat, but I'm fairly certain our descendants will judge us the same way we judge slave owners: we were intelligent, we had the necessary mental ingredients to come to the conclusion that some of the animals we consume possessed some level of sentience, but we were unable to do so due to sheer historical and cultural momentum.

And those descendants will be viewed in horror by their descendants in turn, when they prove that plants have sentience and thoughts.

I’m sorry, but this comment is in bad faith. Plants do no have brains, they do not emote or feel pain. Someone will chime in with a "well actually ..." no doubt, but to ascribe any form of equivalence between plants and animals in this way is a bad faith argument. And more to the point: our descendants horror will be that we knew we were causing the suffering of living beings and yet we did it anyway.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#157

Post by lenkite » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:38 PM UTC

bradbeattie wrote: post #140

lenkite wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those descendants will be viewed in horror by their descendants in turn, when they prove that plants have sentience and thoughts.

Not to drift too far off topic, but you may be surprised to learn about biomass transfer efficiency. It takes a lot more plant mass to feed to animals than eating those plants directly. This "plants might feel pain too" gotcha doesn't really play out.

That's assuming the biomass can be eaten by humans in the first place. We can't digest a lot of stuff that can be eaten by animals whom we can eat in turn.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#158

Post by lenkite » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:39 PM UTC

pbourke wrote: post #156

lenkite wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those descendants will be viewed in horror by their descendants in turn, when they prove that plants have sentience and thoughts.

I’m sorry, but this comment is in bad faith. Plants do no have brains, they do not emote or feel pain. Someone will chime in with a "well actually ..." no doubt, but to ascribe any form of equivalence between plants and animals in this way is a bad faith argument. And more to the point: our descendants horror will be that we knew we were causing the suffering of living beings and yet we did it anyway.

To nitpick: emote and feeling pain != sentience and thinking. But let's leave this discussion alone, I meant that in humour.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#159

Post by hencq » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:40 PM UTC

bradbeattie wrote: post #140

lenkite wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those descendants will be viewed in horror by their descendants in turn, when they prove that plants have sentience and thoughts.

Not to drift too far off topic, but you may be surprised to learn about biomass transfer efficiency. It takes a lot more plant mass to feed to animals than eating those plants directly. This "plants might feel pain too" gotcha doesn't really play out.

I feel you misunderstood the point being made. Societal norms and attitudes evolve and blindly measuring history against contemporary standards is often counterproductive.

Please don't mistake this as some apology for slavery, wife beating, antisemitism or whatever. It isn't; people did reprehensible things in the past. Just realize that it's extremely unlikely that our current norms are the objectively correct ones that will be forever unchanged.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#160

Post by mam2 » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #153

mam2 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats not at all what he says in this video. He says slapping a woman is fine if she is already abusing you. I'd rather walk away than slap personally, because girls like he describe are just a waste of time from experience (even though they usually think it makes them cool lol), but he is NOT advocating abusing at all. He is advocating "slapping" (and making it clear to not punch) to END abuse.

This comment is flagrantly misogynistic. This is a ridiculous interpretation and the mental gymnastics to try to distinguish “slapping” from abuse, or to do victim blaming by saying it’s qualified by the woman already abusing you (wtf?) - it’s really inappropriate and upsetting to see some on HN making this argument. If you aren’t realizing that your comment is sincerely amplifying misogyny, you need a sensitivity tr…

Its not misogynistic because it is not related to gender at all. His point is basically:

"If some is already verbally abusing you, its fine to resort to light violence if nothing else works".

Its actually a point that i disagree personally, because i would just go away. But if you cant understand that verbal abuse can be far far worse than physical, you are probably the one that needs a sensitivity training more than me.. Or you just need to live life a little more until you meet some really narcisisstic and abusive partner (whichever his gender) which will harass you and make you seriously consider violence.