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Sean Connery has died

bbc.co.uk

111–120 of 261 posts

Re: Sean Connery has died

#111
post #105
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone here was saying that we should reduce people to a two-dimensional caricature of themselves. I think the point that was trying to be made was that, this is something people should know about before they decided to unreservedly push this man as a saviour or as a hero, and that giving this knowledge to people allows them to decide how they feel about it, whether they are comfortable with it, and ult…

I appreciate the nuanced response and I also believe you're also coming from a place of compassion here too. I agree to an extent, but I think it is too easy to take a nasty turn in this age of information overload. It's very easy to cherry pick salacious details and run with them, knowing that people will take it at face value. I'm absolutely not accusing anyone here of doing that, and in part I'm not responding to…

> Even if Connery did publicly retract or apologise, for example, how many people would try to seek that out if all they saw was the original video in isolation? Once a criminal, always a criminal?

See: Dan Harmon's apology which so easily disproves this :) In the case of Connery, it would have been easy for him to push his PR people to publicly denounce the video, do a few interviews, and donate some token sum of a couple of thousand to the relevant charities. I remember (But unfortunately can't cite) some other people who have then gone on to be advocates for these causes as a form of penance. As a celebrity, pretty much anything like this is newsworthy, if not, he doesn't have good PR people and should fire them and hire new ones, because they aren't effective enough for his purposes :P

> Or can we imagine that people may change even without making a public song and dance about it?

I mean, he stated it publicly in the first place, so obviously he thought at the time that that public statement on that was worth his salt. Assuming he had reformed and then gone on to improve his perspectives, it seems unlikely that from then on he would be unaware of the harm that that video, still in perpetuity, could cause and want to undo that to some extent.

Reforming isn't possible on a personal level, because we (and I'm sorry for this so heavily memed statement) live in a community. On a fundamental level our public statements take on a life of their own, and because we made them, we should have responsibility for them. From then on, that statement can do untold harm or benefit. Such is the way of living in a community, where your actions will affect other people. Part of reforming yourself is attempting to undo the damage that you have caused in the past. And so part of that reformation would inherently have to be, retracting or attempting to undo the damage caused by those public statements.

A different way to put this would be: Is it possible to reform yourself and not try to undo the damage of your past actions in some way? Are you truly reformed if you wave your hand and do not take responsibility for them?

Re: Sean Connery has died

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a very weird take on my comments. We didn’t make Sean Connery identify as “bad” - he did that, and did so unremorsefully and unapologetically. He didn’t want to come back to the “good” side. I find it most perplexing of all that you would want to do mental gymnastics to defend someone like that or minimize the highlighting of genuine harm that person did by trying to disingenuously act like it’s more nuanced tha…

Time and place, my dude. You might as well start picketing outside of the man's wake. It's rude to trample on the emotions of people who are mourning together.

Nah. Airing of grievances is a perfectly legitimate form of grief. When my (very popular, publicly beloved, but privately abusive) dad died, I didn't speak my mind at his funeral because of attitudes like yours. People with an incomplete understanding of his person wanted to censor my experiences in order to relish in the good times. My grief process would require several years of counseling. They were there for a party, and most of them experienced a day or less of grief. The truth is complex. The weirdest reaction to "cancel culture" is people who would censor the truth in favor of fantasy, but complain that their fave artist is the one being censored.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#113
post #45

I love Red October. Fantastic movie. Also I will never forget his role as Indiana Jones’ father. The scene where he scares away the birds with his umbrella in order to take down a German Messerschmidt.

Nitpick: it wasn’t a Messerschmidt. It wasn’t even a German design ( https://indianajones.fandom.com/wiki/Pilatus_P-2 ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_P-2 says it first flew on April 27, 1945, so it must have time-travelled to be able to attack Indiana Jones in 1938.

Good thing he took it out, then!

Re: Sean Connery has died

#114

I'll always remember him for Zardoz

I would rate Zardoz to be the best movie that Connery was in.

It's widely panned as schlocky B-grade scifi, but it's actually pretty interesting and more profound than most A-grade films that garner much higher critical acclaim.

Sure, there's plenty of cheese in that film, but it doesn't make it any less great... more great, in my view.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#115

I once helped Mr. Connery print something. I was staying at the Beverly Hills Hilton in 2004 during Oscars week. I was in the business center on the Internet (this was the dark ages before ubiquitous hotel WiFi and personal devices.) Someone comes in, and then a few minutes later says in a completely unmistakable voice “Excuse me, do you know how to print this?” I immediately jumped into parental IT support mode, it…

Your story reminds me

How did Sean Connery shave?

...same as the rest of us, ctrl-s

Re: Sean Connery has died

#117

The guy defined what it meant to be classy, hip, and bad ass all at the same time. Mere mortals can barely do just a single one of those.

Wasn't he known for saying that "women need to be hit now and then" or something? Real classy.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#119
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget he was also an unapologetic advocate of spousal abuse, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mzXkbJwrN38

Thats not at all what he says in this video. He says slapping a woman is fine if she is already abusing you. I'd rather walk away than slap personally, because girls like he describe are just a waste of time from experience (even though they usually think it makes them cool lol), but he is NOT advocating abusing at all. He is advocating "slapping" (and making it clear to not punch) to END abuse.

Assault is abuse.

It doesn't matter whether you assault someone with an open or closed hand.

Re: Sean Connery has died

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a very weird take on my comments. We didn’t make Sean Connery identify as “bad” - he did that, and did so unremorsefully and unapologetically. He didn’t want to come back to the “good” side. I find it most perplexing of all that you would want to do mental gymnastics to defend someone like that or minimize the highlighting of genuine harm that person did by trying to disingenuously act like it’s more nuanced tha…

Time and place, my dude. You might as well start picketing outside of the man's wake. It's rude to trample on the emotions of people who are mourning together.

Nah, sorry, that is no excuse. He made these decisions. This is the legacy he intended, with his own volition.

If you do something like go on national press and unapologetically endorse spousal abuse (which absolutely invites and encourages other abusers and leads to real harm), and you double down on this and never apologize or retract it, then you absolutely deserve for it to be constantly brought up as a defining event in your life.

“Let’s honor someone who did something despicable just cuz that’s “respectful” and we like his movies” is totally not OK.

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