Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How • Hacker News Board

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#61

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:54 PM UTC

40four wrote: post #31

DanBC wrote: post #18

The headline says "masks work", then the article redefines masks to exclude the things that many people are wearing, and then adds further criteria that rules out most other people. It then fails to take into account research that shows that cotton masks become saturated with exhaled moisture and perspiration, and that stops their filtering properties. It also fails to take into account reductions in social distancin…

Since you sound skeptical, here is some real hard numbers from my home state. Statistical analysis from the South Carolina Department of Health. https://scdhec.gov/news-releases/dhecs-third-data-analysis-m... https://scdhec.gov/news-releases/update-mask-requirement-dat...

[deleted]

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#62

Post by thanatosmin » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

thanatosmin wrote: post #54

crisdux wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone convinced in this mask pseudoscience, here is extensive scientific literature over decades that establishes that wearing surgical masks, respirators and cotton masks do not reduce the risk of contracting verified illnesses. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216002 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-inf... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1750-2659... https://www.…

I looked at three links here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216002 Is laughably underpowered. 2 people got a cold in one group, 1 in the other. There's nothing to derive from this. bin-Reza is a review that does not agree with your statement. Radonovich et al compares N95 and surgical masks, and finds no difference between those. One has to actually read and critically evaluate scientific papers to learn some…

Smith et al again compares N95 to surgical masks.

Offeddu et al is the same.

Long et al is the same.

So none of these links support your claim.

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#63

Post by URfejk » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:56 PM UTC

tonetheman wrote: post #45

The way I have explained it to my less scientific friends. If I shot 100 golf balls at you directly most of them would hit you. If put a soccer net between us but closer to me the thrower of golf balls some number of those golf balls would not hit you anymore... so you would be hit by less than 100 golf balls. And even better if there is a soccer net close to me and a second soccer net close to you even less of the 1…

Problem is that those nets have such wide holes that literally every ball gets thru.

Mask that cover your face tight + filters = success

Masks that we now have = fail

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#64

Post by Eldt » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:56 PM UTC

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #37

Quanttek wrote: post #29

This thread is quite embarrassing. The science is clear ( https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8,)yet HN still argues against it. But, unlike others, I don't think this very surprising. Many (not all) HN readers, being software engineers, have a high level of pretentiousness that comes from being good in one field, and then carry over that arrogance into areas where they have no clue. Suddenly, you see so…

This site is quite honestly the laughing stock of many communities that recognize this when it happens, which is comically often. It's quite embarrassing indeed.

This community is absolutely riddled with mental disorders

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#65

Post by btown » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:57 PM UTC

davak wrote: post #59

I'm a critical care doc and directly involved with COVID administrative policies for my health system organization. I have recently told friends and family to start buying and wearing medical masks. Our experience is that medical masks are very protective in protecting the wearer from catching the disease. Hospitals have plenty of masks now. A cloth mask prevents spread away from the wearer, but a medical mask protec…

What would qualify as a medical mask by your definition? Would this be distinct from a mask with N95 material?

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#66

Post by dzelzs » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:58 PM UTC

URfejk wrote: post #35

More stuff on masks: A visual demonstration why masks don't work: https://videopress.com/v/4egEyh2b We did not identify any experimental volunteer studies that investigated whether surgical masks or N95 respirators could protect against infection: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-inf... Face mask use in health care workers has not been demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms…

Except the video goes to show the opposite.

The volume that goes through directly, does so with reduced velocity. Meanwhile what goes around - doesn't go "everywhere". Instead it stays localized.

Now we remember the fact that masks don't cancel social distancing but instead go hand in hand - and it seems to show that it would in fact provide a benefit - containing the aerosol in a smaller radius around the mask-wearing individual.

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#67

Post by Eldt » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:58 PM UTC

URfejk wrote: post #50

naavis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might not know if you are sick or not, though. There have been many asymptomatic cases.

You don't know if you have flu or not either and yet no one has worn masks when there is a flu season.

They do in other countries. Nice little lesson to be learned there.

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#68

Post by blunte » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:58 PM UTC

mrob wrote: post #36

blunte wrote: post #22

Anything that in any way reduces the flow of virus particles by definition reduces the spreading of the virus. If a single globule of liquid leaving an infected person's mouth, whether due to a cough, a sneeze, or just a spitty staccato spoken statement, is a transmission opportunity. If a mask catches only one such drop, then it has lowered the risk of transmission. Hell, having all conversations with a pair of unde…

>Anything that in any way reduces the flow of virus particles by definition reduces the spreading of the virus. It does not. It's possible for a filter to break some droplets into smaller droplets that linger in the air for longer. Evidence suggests that masks are still a net benefit, but this is by scientific study, not "by definition".

Ok, fair enough. We cannot say based on current information if withholding some virus particles at the cost of delivering a few in a more long-lasting form is better or worse.

Since we cannot test all possibilities here, it is then left to intuition and "wisdom". I have to believe that significantly reducing the number of virus particles in the air while allowing a few to linger longer would be preferable to the opposite.

As I have observed, people are terrible at judging distances. I am probably more likely to get infected by a spray of cough droplets at close range than a few individual tiny droplets floating in the breeze. If I had my way, most people would be wearing masks permananently (and also not allowed to come within 3 meters of me), virus or not.

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#69

Post by dzelzs » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:59 PM UTC

URfejk wrote: post #50

naavis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might not know if you are sick or not, though. There have been many asymptomatic cases.

You don't know if you have flu or not either and yet no one has worn masks when there is a flu season.

are you comparing the flu to c-19?

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#70

Post by the_only_law » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:59 PM UTC

Quanttek wrote: post #29

This thread is quite embarrassing. The science is clear ( https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8,)yet HN still argues against it. But, unlike others, I don't think this very surprising. Many (not all) HN readers, being software engineers, have a high level of pretentiousness that comes from being good in one field, and then carry over that arrogance into areas where they have no clue. Suddenly, you see so…

> Many (not all) HN readers, being software engineers, have a high level of pretentiousness that comes from being good in one field, and then carry over that arrogance into areas where they have no clue.

The irony is to watch people get up in arms when an article is posted by some expert in another field who does the same. Its kinda funny thr amount of HN comments I've seen where some user says something along this lines of "author has no idea what they're talking about and should stick to xyz"