Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How • Hacker News Board

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#21

Post by DanBC » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:17 PM UTC

thawaway1837 wrote: post #16

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scientific studies have not proven that masks are effective in limiting the spread of the virus. Quite a lot EU countries suggest they can do more harm than good if used sloppily. Masks and covid in the US have become political issue riddled with pseudo science from all sides.

There’s more studies than controlled ones. Sociological studies strongly suggest that masks do work. For example, there was a recent study that compared COVID hospitalization rates of districts in Tennessee that had mask mandates vs those which didn’t and the areas with mask mandates had significantly lower disease spread.

To be clear: you're saying that we don't see any benefit with rigorous science. We only see the benefit when we drop our standards of evidence.

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#22

Post by blunte » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:17 PM UTC

Anything that in any way reduces the flow of virus particles by definition reduces the spreading of the virus.

If a single globule of liquid leaving an infected person's mouth, whether due to a cough, a sneeze, or just a spitty staccato spoken statement, is a transmission opportunity. If a mask catches only one such drop, then it has lowered the risk of transmission.

Hell, having all conversations with a pair of underwear on your head (covering your mouth and nose) would help.

People saying otherwise are either truly ignorant or intentionally lying.

Now maybe masks ultimately provide such a modest benefit relative to their cost and discomfort as to not be worth it, but we just don't know and probably never will definitively know.

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#23

Post by petulla » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:17 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #18

The headline says "masks work", then the article redefines masks to exclude the things that many people are wearing, and then adds further criteria that rules out most other people. It then fails to take into account research that shows that cotton masks become saturated with exhaled moisture and perspiration, and that stops their filtering properties. It also fails to take into account reductions in social distancin…

Which cotton mask study did you read? This one found cotton masks were ok https://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-study-finds-many-homem...

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#24

Post by soneca » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:24 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #20

seattle_spring wrote: post #17

It's shocking, especially on a scientific forum like HN, that people get so triggered over being asked to wear a teensy extra bit of clothing that might protect those around them from dying.

Show me the science. We have lots of RCTs on mask wearing (mostly in healthcare professionals) and they struggle to find a benefit. People should wear masks, masks may help, but it's unhelpful when people misrepresent the strength of the evidence.

I think this article does a good job properly presenting what evidence we have: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#25

Post by ghthor » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

If you want to wear a mask, wear a mask. If you dont, then dont. Stop making me a bad person if I'm not sick at all and I dont wear a mask.

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#26

Post by Kaze404 » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #21

thawaway1837 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s more studies than controlled ones. Sociological studies strongly suggest that masks do work. For example, there was a recent study that compared COVID hospitalization rates of districts in Tennessee that had mask mandates vs those which didn’t and the areas with mask mandates had significantly lower disease spread.

To be clear: you're saying that we don't see any benefit with rigorous science. We only see the benefit when we drop our standards of evidence.

How are sociological studies any less scientifical? Is the human behavior something not worth studying?

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#27

Post by 40four » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:28 PM UTC

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #14

AlexandrB wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That interview is from March. Understanding of COVID has moved on. Are you still running software from March on all your devices or just your brain?

Scientific studies have not proven that masks are effective in limiting the spread of the virus. Quite a lot EU countries suggest they can do more harm than good if used sloppily. Masks and covid in the US have become political issue riddled with pseudo science from all sides.

Statistical analysis from the South Carolina Department of Health.

https://scdhec.gov/news-releases/dhecs-third-data-analysis-m...

https://scdhec.gov/news-releases/update-mask-requirement-dat...

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#28

Post by the_arun » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:30 PM UTC

ghthor wrote: post #25

If you want to wear a mask, wear a mask. If you dont, then dont. Stop making me a bad person if I'm not sick at all and I dont wear a mask.

How do you know you are not sick? COVID could stay in your body for first few weeks & you wouldn’t know it. - Asymptomatic

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#29

Post by Quanttek » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

This thread is quite embarrassing. The science is clear (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8,)yet HN still argues against it. But, unlike others, I don't think this very surprising.

Many (not all) HN readers, being software engineers, have a high level of pretentiousness that comes from being good in one field, and then carry over that arrogance into areas where they have no clue.

Suddenly, you see software engineers pretending they know more than sociologists who have studied the topic for years and dismissing their evidence out of hand or merely responding to the title of the article, without engaging its substance.

We see it quite clearly whenever any topic from the social sciences is discussed, be it discrimination, social inequality, government regulation, taxes or the welfare state.

Re: Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How

#30

Post by xyzzy_plugh » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #20

seattle_spring wrote: post #17

It's shocking, especially on a scientific forum like HN, that people get so triggered over being asked to wear a teensy extra bit of clothing that might protect those around them from dying.

Show me the science. We have lots of RCTs on mask wearing (mostly in healthcare professionals) and they struggle to find a benefit. People should wear masks, masks may help, but it's unhelpful when people misrepresent the strength of the evidence.

Sure, but does the science here matter? Is wearing a mask, which might reduce the spread, and might save lives, really that much of a burden, that you won't do it even though it might be a good idea?

I say, do it anyways, I'll wait patiently for the science at literally any point in the future. If it turns out masks, statistically, do nothing, then I will be no worse off for trying.