How to deal with extreme physical pain • Hacker News Board

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#261

Post by Vinnl » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 10:05 AM UTC

francis-li wrote: post #252

banana_giraffe wrote: post #12

I have a chronic condition that causes pain. One of the things I've learned, in as much as I can, is I don't tell anyone. I'd rather be rude than explain I'm in pain. Not because I don't appreciate sympathy. Not because I'm ashamed. It's because I don't want your advice on how to make the pain go away or to deal with it. I'm tired of advice. I've got too much advice. I try things, I research issues. I talk to doctors…

That sounds really frustrating and I think you've encapsulated what people who have these chronic conditions are feeling quite well. It seems like when people with pain decide to share what they're going through, they aren't looking for solutions -- they just want people to know what's happening and that their experience in that moment is affected by it, and they want you to understand that. I think this mindset is e…

I wonder if it would help (bit nervous about this comment because it looks like giving advice, and I haven't had the frustration myself) to explicitly preface the sharing with an explicit request not to give advice?

I have been on the other end of that: when the father of a friend of mine passed away they explicitly said they did not want sympathy but instead to do something fun that night, and we did. Years later I still remember that because it felt somewhat as an eye-opener that people can just be that candid.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#262

Post by treeman79 » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 10:07 AM UTC

Retric wrote: post #29

gwbas1c wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's because I don't want your advice on how to make the pain go away or to deal with it Banana_giraffe isn't alone. I had chronic obstructive sleep apnea and I quickly got tired of unsolicited woo-woo illogical suggestions to treat it. Exercise and meditation doesn't fix problems with bone structure.

Sleep apnea is like knee pain in that loosing significant weight either makes a huge difference, or does nothing. Unfortunately, if it doesn’t work for you people will still constantly bring it up.

As someone who struggles with weight and chronic conditions.

There are low hanging fruit. Dropping weight, removing processed foods, exercise are your bare minimum of what everyone should try for solving Medical problems.

Now a lot of problems can be solved this way. Just not everything.

I suffered exercise intolerance for decades. No mater how hard I tried I would need two weeks of recovery after any work out. Turned out I had underlying problems that none of the what I mentioned above were going to fix.

However I still feel strongly that if I’m going to complain to a doctor, I should be doing my part with diet and exercise.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#263

Post by treeman79 » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 10:10 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #256

PaulKeeble wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a doctor in the sleep clinic tell me if I lost 10KG my sleep apnea would be cured. I lost 15KG and my prescription went up 5%. When the doctors treating you believe that nonsense and then are surprised it did not work there isn't much hope for the public. This myth actually comes from the doctors.

Weight loss is not curative, but it is a useful. About 2/3rds to 3/4ths of people with obstructive sleep apnoea are obese. https://cks.nice.org.uk/topics/obstructive-sleep-apnoea-synd... > These recommendations are based on the Scottish Intercollegiate Guidelines Network (SIGN) guideline Management of obstructive sleep apnoea/hypopnoea syndrome (OSAHS) in adults [SIGN, 2003]. > Advice on weight loss and exercise > Ex…

Spouse has a threshold weight. Above she snores like a train. I sleep elsewhere.

Below she’s fine.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#264

Post by treeman79 » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 10:11 AM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #254

gwbas1c wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's because I don't want your advice on how to make the pain go away or to deal with it Banana_giraffe isn't alone. I had chronic obstructive sleep apnea and I quickly got tired of unsolicited woo-woo illogical suggestions to treat it. Exercise and meditation doesn't fix problems with bone structure.

Neither exercise nor meditation worked for me, but very intense throat exercises alleviated the condition. I also took up singing. Now, I daily follow a 5 minute intense throat exercise before going to beg until my neck and throat aches. Only then I hit the pillow. People suffering from sleep apnea seem to have bad throat muscles and big tongues.

Sounds right to me.

Also if I’m in a flare, those items will swell noticeably

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#265

Post by treeman79 » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 10:15 AM UTC

banana_giraffe wrote: post #78

centimeter wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your diet plan allows beer it’s probably not very effective. Doctors aren’t going to be very helpful here - 95% are incompetent. You should probably try to come up with a good and efficiently computable a priori dietary strategy (e.g. evolutionary ancestral diet, with the goal of minimizing the chance of running into defective metabolic pathways). I can’t think of any such strategies I’m aware of that would allow…

This is exactly what I'm talking about. One beer every 3 months is proof my diet is a problem? For a condition you know nothing about? Really. Fine, then it's useless, and I've surrounded myself with idiots, all of my careful testing and attempts to understand my condition have failed. This kinda of nonsense, where I debate the very meaning of "me" to some extent is tiring. Even if I'm wrong in all of this, I'm not h…

Ah planning the treats.

I’ll have a chocolate donut about once a month.

I have to perfect in my diet for days in order to enjoy it no penalty. A second one is not an option.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#266

Post by headstorm » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 10:18 AM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #132

banana_giraffe wrote: post #12

I have a chronic condition that causes pain. One of the things I've learned, in as much as I can, is I don't tell anyone. I'd rather be rude than explain I'm in pain. Not because I don't appreciate sympathy. Not because I'm ashamed. It's because I don't want your advice on how to make the pain go away or to deal with it. I'm tired of advice. I've got too much advice. I try things, I research issues. I talk to doctors…

At the risk of being a jerk: Have you read the book The Mindbody Prescription by Dr. Sarno? [1] I sound like an infomercial pitchman but that book changed my life. I had a massive structural issue that was either going mean a knee replacement or dealing with "you won't walk right ever again". Well, it turns out there was a third option. [1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FOTRPJQ/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?... It sounds woo…

I was completely ready for that book to change my life after reading so many glowing testimonials. It did nothing, though I felt worse after reading it a few times, because it was supposed to be so transformative.

I guess the mind-body prescription isn't prescribed for celiac disease or my other health issues, because finding out that I had those conditions was the key, not Dr. Sarno's advice.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#267

Post by treeman79 » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 10:23 AM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #174

nmfisher wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say most doctors are incompetent, but I would say that most are automatons working to a checklist which probably hasn't been updated since they left school. Patient reports symptoms A, B, C? Order tests X, Y, Z, prescribe drugs 1, 2 and 3. Now that's probably appropriate for (say) 70% of patients. But what about the other 30% of patients whose symptoms or conditions don't fit squarely in the checklist? Tha…

Great comment, sums up exactly what the issue is without resorting to shortcuts like "incompetent" that are more likely to offend than convince (something I've certainly been guilty of in the past). At this point, for mild to moderate healthcare-system interactions, I go to doctor's appt with a pretty accurate sense of what prescription and/or advice I'm leaving with. I basically consider it a fee I need to pay in or…

I’ve tried reading medical reports of patient complaints.

It is crazy hard. It’s like tech support on a Linux running Oracle with grandma.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#268

Post by saiya-jin » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 10:26 AM UTC

theshrike79 wrote: post #243

scaladev wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is is normal in the US? I live in what one might consider a third world country, know quite a few insulin-dependent diabetics, and this story is appalling to me. I've never heard of any diabetic running out of their medication and having to ask the internet for help. Just call the local equivalent of 911 and they'll sort it out. Jesus.

Americans have developed a survival strategy of turning horror stories into heartwarming tales. "Homeless person turns to crowdfunding to get themselves a home!" Americans: Aww how cute! Rest of the world: What the actual fuck? "Family turns to internet for insulin supplies because they can't afford them, man drives 1000 miles to give them some." Americans: Amazing heroism! Rest of the world: How the hell does a diab…

Would be nice if americans acknowledged that although their country is great in many things, its not so great in quite a few others, or outright horrible at some. Just like any other place. Maybe take some humble inspiration from places where it can and does work better. It doesn't mean system ends up with communism, dictature and whatnot. Just a slightly more humane system to live in, where rich stay rich just with tiny little less wealth, on levels that don't make any difference to their luxury lives.

If the country is so prosperous as US, its also important for those rich and beyond such petty worries to live in well working society anyway. Otherwise they end up in their little fenced paradise with wolves roaming everywhere outside.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#269

Post by treeman79 » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 10:26 AM UTC

jquery wrote: post #74

centimeter wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your diet plan allows beer it’s probably not very effective. Doctors aren’t going to be very helpful here - 95% are incompetent. You should probably try to come up with a good and efficiently computable a priori dietary strategy (e.g. evolutionary ancestral diet, with the goal of minimizing the chance of running into defective metabolic pathways). I can’t think of any such strategies I’m aware of that would allow…

This entire comment thread seems like Exhibit A in why banana_giraffe doesn’t usually tell other people.

Exactly. Spent years hiding symptoms. When it got the point I couldn’t, I had a brief round of sympathy. Then people got impatient that I didn’t quickly “recover”. In that case recovery was over a year, just to get back to were I could hid symptoms again.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#270

Post by dandare » Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 10:33 AM UTC

This is why I think that fighting torture is the second most important global task (after fighting climate change). All of you - all of us - who experienced unbearable pain, now imagine your pain but ten times worse, inflicted deliberately, on hours and days, over months and years, in combination with multiple other tortures, under sleep deprivation, in a state of learned helplessness.

As you read these lines, people are hanging from ceiling by hands handcuffed behind their back, being beaten all over the body until they lose consciousness, woken up and beaten over and over.

We have learned to ignore what is routinely happening in countries like SA, Egypt, NK, Turkey, China and many, many others. We use the newspeak "human rights abuse" to soften the sound of it, to avoid the emotional disturbance that comes with imagining the profesional, large scale, indiscriminate torture programs in countries that are our military allies and trade partners.