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Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

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Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#101

Post by thinking2smll0 »

chrisco255 wrote: post #75
dboreham wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed Ah ha. A HN thread close to home (I live within earshot of wolves in Montana). So...we do [1], [2]. Ranchers (generalizing, of course) just don't like wolves. It's a really deep cultural thing. So if you as president want to take some step that will cause a bunch of folks in ranching areas to high five, you'd delist wolves. That they may not in fact be impacte…

From my talks with Montanans, the main reason some of them don't like the wolves is because the Elk population went down after their reintroduction.

So a deeply held cultural point of pride to be leveraged for political points all the same

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#102

Post by thinking2smll0 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #82
dboreham wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed Ah ha. A HN thread close to home (I live within earshot of wolves in Montana). So...we do [1], [2]. Ranchers (generalizing, of course) just don't like wolves. It's a really deep cultural thing. So if you as president want to take some step that will cause a bunch of folks in ranching areas to high five, you'd delist wolves. That they may not in fact be impacte…

If someone was killing my pets, while paying me reasonable compensation, I would also be pissed off at the arrangement. Some things money can't buy.

If I chose to live in BFE, I’d accept the wilderness is a harsh reality and be less brittle over what is ultimately a personal life choice

Not up to everyone else to let the ecosystem go cause they want to LARP John Wayne movies

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#103

Post by jefftk »

BurningFrog wrote: post #82
dboreham wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed Ah ha. A HN thread close to home (I live within earshot of wolves in Montana). So...we do [1], [2]. Ranchers (generalizing, of course) just don't like wolves. It's a really deep cultural thing. So if you as president want to take some step that will cause a bunch of folks in ranching areas to high five, you'd delist wolves. That they may not in fact be impacte…

If someone was killing my pets, while paying me reasonable compensation, I would also be pissed off at the arrangement. Some things money can't buy.

Cattle, not pets

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#104

Post by HappySweeney »

chrisco255 wrote: post #75
dboreham wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed Ah ha. A HN thread close to home (I live within earshot of wolves in Montana). So...we do [1], [2]. Ranchers (generalizing, of course) just don't like wolves. It's a really deep cultural thing. So if you as president want to take some step that will cause a bunch of folks in ranching areas to high five, you'd delist wolves. That they may not in fact be impacte…

From my talks with Montanans, the main reason some of them don't like the wolves is because the Elk population went down after their reintroduction.

Wasn't that the point? The elk were eating everything down to the nubs.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#106

Post by anonAndOn »

floren wrote: post #39
Sunspark wrote: post #25

This is part of the Trump administration's agenda to remove or dismantle anything they can that the Obama administration implemented or put in place. It is the same with all the other environmental regulations and protections they are removing such as the prohibition on drilling for oil in the arctic wildlife refugee, etc. It's very unfortunate for Americans that this administration's policies are not based on ration…

The article clearly states that Obama also attempted to de-list the gray wolves. The wildlife biologists and managers out there consider them safely recovered, it is primarily people in distant cities with vague warm fuzzy feelings over pictures of wolves who consider them still somehow critically endangered.

While there may be some packs up in the northern Rockies, when was the last time you saw a wild wolf in Texas? Admittedly I'm no wildlife expert, but I believe there's also a distinction between the northern (doing OK) and southern (non-existent) subspecies.[0]

[0]https://www.wolfquest.org/wolfopedia/Wolves/Gray-Wolf-subspe...

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#107

Post by [deleted] »

BurningFrog wrote: post #82
dboreham wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed Ah ha. A HN thread close to home (I live within earshot of wolves in Montana). So...we do [1], [2]. Ranchers (generalizing, of course) just don't like wolves. It's a really deep cultural thing. So if you as president want to take some step that will cause a bunch of folks in ranching areas to high five, you'd delist wolves. That they may not in fact be impacte…

If someone was killing my pets, while paying me reasonable compensation, I would also be pissed off at the arrangement. Some things money can't buy.

[deleted]

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#108

Post by NewOrderNow »

NewOrderNow wrote: post #48
davexunit wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop killing animals.

Give me free food

Commenter told me to "grow a fucking vegetable" but I can't because a wolf keeps eating it. So now I have to murder a wolf or my family starves.

See how this (aka life) works?

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#109

Post by Filligree »

perbu wrote: post #44
dboreham wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed Ah ha. A HN thread close to home (I live within earshot of wolves in Montana). So...we do [1], [2]. Ranchers (generalizing, of course) just don't like wolves. It's a really deep cultural thing. So if you as president want to take some step that will cause a bunch of folks in ranching areas to high five, you'd delist wolves. That they may not in fact be impacte…

In Norway we pay ranchers for sheep which are taken by wolves. They still really hate wolves. More sheep are taken by wolverines, lynx and bears yet the ranches are still keen on full extermination of the wolf population.

It's not unreasonable. Wolves are among the few predators that can and will attack humans.

That the wolves, themselves, now have a deep-set fear of humanity and would only dare to do so if they're desperate and starving... is a distant second to that same deep-set cultural fear of wolves.

Unpopular Opinion Time: The ecosystem damage from not having apex predators is large enough that it might be worth a few human lives to avoid.

Unpopular Opinion Time the Second: But there are other apex predators, such as the lynx, which can take much the same role without being nearly as dangerous to megafauna like humans.

Though that's only a decent solution if you don't have problems with megafauna like elk.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#110

Post by hashtagmarkup »

yupyup54133 wrote: post #50

Here in Wisconsin the wolf argument is a wealthy vs poor issue. Specifically, it is mostly the southern wealthy urbanites and suburbanites dictating to the poorer northern half of the state that they must put up with the re-introduction of wolves. It would be much less of an issue if the wolves were also introduced into the county forests and state parks in the southern half of the state where the wealthy urbanites a…

The median household income of milwaukee county is less than the median household income of nearly every single county in the northern half of the state, and as you go further north, the median household income goes higher. What are you talking about?
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