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Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

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Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#31

Post by monkeybutton »

gbrown wrote: post #11
Ericson2314 wrote: post #2

Yeah this is a bit premature. I dunno why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed (it's pretty rare) and everyone goes home happy? Apex predator reintroduction is a good litmus test for how much conservation we can stomach, so I think it's important that we get this right.

Why should we even pay? There's no constitutional right to be able to leave your livestock basically unprotected on vast tracts of land where they're vulnerable to predators. I mean, if it makes it more palatable it's probably worth it to pay farmers... but I viscerally dislike the idea that any industry has the right to: 1. Destroy the environment for their convenience 2. Be indemnified by the government for their i…

If it's such a rare occurrence, is there an opportunity for insurance companies to provide solutions instead of the government?

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#32

Post by shadowgovt »

dboreham wrote: post #18
shadowgovt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be wealth redistribution, which a critical mass of Americans are pathologically opposed to.

> which a critical mass of Americans are pathologically opposed to Presumably this is a joke?

it is not.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/job...

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#34

Post by thursday0987 »

pcmaffey wrote: post #12
Grakel wrote: post #3

Hope they continue to do well, and are added to a limited hunting season in my state, creating a balanced population and a new game animal.

I can't fathom how people enjoy killing for sport (for food, sure, but solely for pleasure?). That must be some kind of pathology?

100,000 years of human history would disagree on your pathology diagnosis. Humans have been killing for sport, for food, and for war, since before we were humans.

We are literally the best hunters in the known universe. Its not a pathology.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#35

Post by nkurz »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #2

Yeah this is a bit premature. I dunno why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed (it's pretty rare) and everyone goes home happy? Apex predator reintroduction is a good litmus test for how much conservation we can stomach, so I think it's important that we get this right.

> I dunno why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed (it's pretty rare) and everyone goes home happy?

I think the answer is that while there is not currently a federal program, many states already do pay ranchers for animals killed by wolves. Searching for "wolf depredation reimbursement" pulls up many details. Here's a High Country News article on the topic: https://www.hcn.org/issues/50.12/wolves-when-cattle-go-missi....

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#36

Post by NewOrderNow »

ainiriand wrote: post #8
Grakel wrote: post #3

Hope they continue to do well, and are added to a limited hunting season in my state, creating a balanced population and a new game animal.

Why your first reaction to the recovery of this species (that your own hunter breed almost completely erased), is to think about them as moving targets? Can't you find something more productive to do than to shoot innocent animals?

Hunters aren't a breed. I don't understand these comments more than I don't understand a human's desire to hunt

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#37

Post by Fezzik »

gbrown wrote: post #11
Ericson2314 wrote: post #2

Yeah this is a bit premature. I dunno why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed (it's pretty rare) and everyone goes home happy? Apex predator reintroduction is a good litmus test for how much conservation we can stomach, so I think it's important that we get this right.

Why should we even pay? There's no constitutional right to be able to leave your livestock basically unprotected on vast tracts of land where they're vulnerable to predators. I mean, if it makes it more palatable it's probably worth it to pay farmers... but I viscerally dislike the idea that any industry has the right to: 1. Destroy the environment for their convenience 2. Be indemnified by the government for their i…

We should pay... the price of cows killed by wolves should be priced in to the sales price of beef, which is way too cheap right now as it is. This is a super simple calculation.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#38

Post by falcolas »

pcmaffey wrote: post #12
Grakel wrote: post #3

Hope they continue to do well, and are added to a limited hunting season in my state, creating a balanced population and a new game animal.

I can't fathom how people enjoy killing for sport (for food, sure, but solely for pleasure?). That must be some kind of pathology?

Hunting is a practice as old as mankind itself. And in many parts of the world, it's a tradition that's been handed down from from parents to children even today.

It also helps keep the various wild herds/packs from exploding in size, reducing the number of wild animals that die from starvation.

(Bias disclaimer: I don't hunt, but I live in a state where I'm a minority)

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#39

Post by floren »

Sunspark wrote: post #25

This is part of the Trump administration's agenda to remove or dismantle anything they can that the Obama administration implemented or put in place. It is the same with all the other environmental regulations and protections they are removing such as the prohibition on drilling for oil in the arctic wildlife refugee, etc. It's very unfortunate for Americans that this administration's policies are not based on ration…

The article clearly states that Obama also attempted to de-list the gray wolves. The wildlife biologists and managers out there consider them safely recovered, it is primarily people in distant cities with vague warm fuzzy feelings over pictures of wolves who consider them still somehow critically endangered.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#40

Post by shadowgovt »

grumple wrote: post #14
Ericson2314 wrote: post #2

Yeah this is a bit premature. I dunno why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed (it's pretty rare) and everyone goes home happy? Apex predator reintroduction is a good litmus test for how much conservation we can stomach, so I think it's important that we get this right.

Wolves do relatively little predation of livestock. https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/default/files/docs/HSUS-... I’ve also seen it said that wolf populations do two positive things for livestock: keep grazing wildlife to manageable levels (so that fields are replenished for livestock) and outcompete coyotes, who are more likely to prey on livestock than wolves.

What effect do wolves have on wild hog population?
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