The novelty here is not the collection, it's the analysis. And that makes for a kind of interesting legal distinction that hasn't been made in any other domain, as far as I know. A distinction whereby the collection is legal, the retention is legal, but certain types of analysis may not be.
Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers
141–150 of 184 posts
Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In Canada, do you even really have a right to privacy when in public spaces like a shopping mall? Yes, you do, because while a shopping mall might be considered a "public space," it is private property owned by a private organization. In Canada the PIPEDA [1] covers this federally, though the law is written such that it is a backstop, and provinces are free to enact their own "substantially similar" (or stricter) l…
Personal information under these laws are defined as: age, name, ID numbers, income, ethnic origin, or blood type; opinions, evaluations, comments, social status, or disciplinary actions; and employee files, credit records, loan records, medical records, existence of a dispute between a consumer and a merchant, intentions (for example, to acquire goods or services, or change jobs). How does video of people passing by…
Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers
#143I don't have a problem with this. Most ppl don't know this but there are ppl who make a living harassing other ppl in malls or abusing associative learning to give ppl positive or negative feelings about where they are shopping. They use actual "models" if you want to call it that to influence your decision making everywhere you go. It's actually highly targeted and dangerously accurate.
Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers
#144"An individual would not, while using a mall directory, reasonably expect their image to be captured and used to create a biometric representation of their face, which is sensitive personal information, or for that biometric information to be used to guess their approximate age and gender," they wrote.
Genuine question - if mall had deployed people whose job was to look at people to guess their gender, age and then jot it down in a notebook, then would it have been a problem?
If not, then why this is a problem? Assuming that the 'biometric representation' is discarded by the system after guessing the age and gender.
Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers
#145The commissioners said it did not meet the standard for meaningful consent. "An individual would not, while using a mall directory, reasonably expect their image to be captured and used to create a biometric representation of their face, which is sensitive personal information, or for that biometric information to be used to guess their approximate age and gender," they wrote. Genuine question - if mall had deployed…
It wasn't, it was stored in a third party database.
> Genuine question - if mall had deployed people whose job was to look at people to guess their gender, age and then jot it down in a notebook, then would it have been a problem?
I don't think these notes would ever come close to "a biometric representation of their face" which can tell you with certainty someone was there or not (when, what time, who they were with).
Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
its very similar to what a company called Locarise do in Japan. It's not identifying anyone, merely seeing buyer hotspots, queues, recording visitor numbers, etc. All very valuable to a mall and imo quite harmless to the user if they are not identified
There's no such thing as anonymous data. The ad-tech industry wouldn't exist if there was.
It seems however that in the case of the Canadian mall implementation (or more precisely their solution provider) they stored more than this number, losing the anonymous property of a system they sold as an "Anonymous Video Analytics".
In my opinion, something should be called anonymous if and only if you cannot go back from the stored data to a personally identifiable information.
Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers
#147What's interesting to me about this is how people focus on the 'collection' aspect. But the collection of digital video of people in public spaces with minor (at best) notification (e.g. "smile you're on camera" stickers) has been going on for decades. There's nothing new there at all. So purely from the perspective of collecting data, it seems to me to be well within the purview of established commercial behavior, w…
It is possible, though not well documented, that in China they actually do analyze[0] the image data from video cameras. That said this would be a case study in what that means from a free and open society.
[0] - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/09/china-a...
Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Personal information under these laws are defined as: age, name, ID numbers, income, ethnic origin, or blood type; opinions, evaluations, comments, social status, or disciplinary actions; and employee files, credit records, loan records, medical records, existence of a dispute between a consumer and a merchant, intentions (for example, to acquire goods or services, or change jobs). How does video of people passing by…
They stopped a representation that allowed them to identify that the same person visited again. That’s an id number. They guessed age and gender.
Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers
#149>The company also argued shoppers were made aware of the activity through decals it had placed on shopping mall entry doors that referred to Cadillac Fairview's privacy policy. Do what now? Physical spaces have privacy policies? We're really sleepwalking into a dystopia. If you don't like the privacy policy of your shopping mall, you're free to shop... online, where they get even more behavioral data on you. Yikes.
It’s crazy that their lawyers think that merely referring to a privacy policy via a decal on the door is adequate acceptance of this kind of intrusion. I thought the laws required explicit acceptance online, via a check box on sign up, along with emailed updates when the policy changes. Merely walking through a door cannot possibly be construed to be explicit acceptance.
Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, you make the data collection illegal and with liability like it appears Canada already did hence why this company is in trouble with regulators. Data should be legally made in to toxic waste we all know it should be treated as.
Again, if the worry is about a corrupt and hostile government, I fail to see what making it illegal accomplishes. Who do you think the regulators are? Yes, regulation is great with a just and fair government. If the government can't be trusted, then neither can the regulations. If we can't trust the government, then we need to replace it with one we can trust.
It is not "the government is corrupt, therefore all is pointless". Instead, there are scenarios such as:
- the government is comprised of people, running different departments - those people seem to think they are doing things for the common good - courts determine otherwise, and point to laws passed by legislative bodies as validation - activity stops
"Spy agencies", and "policing agencies" are constantly under these checks and balances. Cases are thrown out, individual careers are axed, when warrants are not used when they should, for example, when searching homes.
Without the laws, and court cases as they are, then the police would simply enter without those warrants, get convictions, and carry on very happy with themselves.
The real problem here is that technology grows so very fast, and that the world is changing quite rapidly. Don't even get me started on bio-tech, or near-Earth space changes over the next decade. Or Interplanetary law!
Legislative bodies, and law, are literally meant to deal with things over the course of decades or more. Legislative bodies tend to sit for 4 years or more! Change is slower, and of course, we like slower change for many things.
But this means that laws much 'catch up' to faster moving change.
Hell just crafting a law, going through the committees, hearing from experts, at least in Canada, then crafting the law, reading it in both houses, and more experts can take more than a year or two.
And that's after the will is in place to enact change.
This is part of the reason I deem the executive branch as having value, but, that is another discussion.
All said, I fear governments with this power most, and private corps next. One law takes care of both of these scenarios.
Lastly?
Never ignore the interest in something. Any old horse trader will tell you, if everyone clamours for something, it has immense value!
Knowing if I farted last week on Tuesday, is of immense information to everyone. Wha? Yet it is! And if it is of such value, if everyone climbs over each other to get that data, to hold it exclusively, to sell it, trade it, there is likely some import to such things.
If this info is so insanely valuable, then shouldn't the creator control it? Control what happens to it?
We have copyrights, patents, trade secrets, and even things like labour laws, acts to protect safety!
The entire purpose of law, is to protect "my stuff" from "that other guy". My life. My belongings. My health.
Yet this? This is all just "OK"?
The current laws surrounding data, are like period of times before labour laws, before human rights legislation, before food safety acts, and on and on.
This period of time is ending. Legislative bodies are catching up.
The question is, what will happen during the transformative period, where law catches up, and passes more and more laws about personal privacy, and control over personal data?