Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Violated a Code of Conduct

fast.ai

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

921–930 of 971 posts

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#921

Post by pseudalopex »

skinkestek wrote: post #754
scatters wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, finding out where someone lives is not that hard, especially if they have a professional or social life. And you can do significant damage to someone's career without knowing where they live.

CoCs has made life scarier. It wasn't until PyCon that I considered anyone could be for for a joke(?) told to a friend next to you, overheard by someone who was supposed to be a developer advocate! .

The PyCon incident had nothing to do with the code of conduct. They even added a rule against publicizing incidents before staff can investigate.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#922

Post by svieira »

doubleunplussed wrote: post #357
ALittleLight wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rebuilt? Why? Do you read the code of conduct when you attend a conference? Personally, I haven't even read the code of conduct for my job, and certainly wouldn't read one if I was speaking at or attending a conference. The CoCs are completely unnecessary and, as shown in this example, arbitrarily enforced. In the blog post I read that their CoC prohibits threats and assaults. Consider how silly that is. If someone's…

He may not support them, but in the current culture you have to pretend to otherwise people might think you're a sexist or a racist. I don't support them, but I pretend to.

> Individuals need not believe all these mystifications, but they must behave as though they did, or they must at least tolerate them in silence, or get along well with those who work with them. For this reason, however, they must live within a lie. They need not accept the lie. It is enough for them to have accepted their life with it and in it. For by this very fact, individuals confirm the system, fulfill the system, make the system, are the system.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120107141633/http://www.vaclav...

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#923

Post by cambalache »

the_only_law wrote: post #279
cambalache wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And HN is pretty friendly to discussion of big-media-tech censorship in general. As long as you blame the "correct" people. You can blame politicians, rich executives, Russia, China and you will be lauded here. You blame the hypocrisy of certain social movements, FAANG employees, Nordic countries, in general anything that can impact the POV of the average HN user and you will be downvoted swiftly. Most websites, th…

Genuine question: what the hell do Nordic countries have to do with media censorship in general?

I was talking in general , not just censorship. Despite of what some Americans may think the Nordic countries are not utopias, there is plenty to criticize about them.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#924

Post by jimkleiber »

the_only_law wrote: post #254
jimkleiber wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree and I'd add that most of us aren't good at giving constructive feedback either, so it can be a double-edged sword (if I used that idiom correctly).

Not that this is a case of this, but in tech communities I see too many examples of "criticism" where in the critic doesn't want to actually provide anything useful to the person and instead uses the opportunity to show themselves and/or the other people involved how smart they are.

When I read that first part, I thought, yup, could have been me right here, even if that weren't your point. I think sometimes I reply online for many different reasons, typically emotional ones. I'll read something and I'll feel excited/confused/angry/annoyed/etc. about that topic or something related and will share it, often not being so aware of why I commented or how it was a mostly non-sequitur comment.

This part of human life fascinates me, where one person may assume the other posted something to show how smart they were, but the person who posted actually did so because they had an aha moment in their head and felt so excited to share it. The differing, sometimes even opposite, perspective on the person's intention.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#925

Post by Dylan16807 »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #807
Dylan16807 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you skip over the word 'assure'? The implication is that other projects aren't performing that particular assurance. Problems such as a plague of racist jokes aren't omnipresent, but they show up often enough in the world that a little signpost at the front door about expectations can help with first impressions and understanding the community.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but is the idea that--apart from a CoC--people might venture into a community thinking racist jokes are okay?

A lot of people will venture in thinking that maybe they're okay here, and they'll find out later.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#926

Post by spacekitcat »

btilly wrote: post #899
spacekitcat wrote: post #856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country, "Political Correctness" is a dog whistle used by Daily Mail readers. It doesn't mean anything. I don't shape my thinking by what some talking head thinks. Why do you think I asked for a concrete example? I notice that you didn't provide one either.

Concrete examples of political correctness gone bad. Censoring the OP for calling someone else wrong. (When the person called wrong is actually a friend and didn't object.) Cisco firing employees for saying, "All lives matter." Maya Forstater being fired for expressing the opinion that while she used people's preferred pronouns, she thought of trans people as their original gender if they still had their real genital…

I’m trans and you are twisting quite a few of those, but you don’t exist from this point on as far as I’m concerned. I won’t debate my my right to be with anyone, least of all you.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#927

Post by shatteredvisage »

esyir wrote: post #875
mcv wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here, though, is inconsistent enforcement. Assuming this side of the story is correct, he didn't actually violate the CoC at all, and the committee he spoke to did. The problem here is not the CoC, it's that the organisation doesn't enforce the CoC, violates it, and punishes people who didn't violate it. They might as well not have a CoC in that case.

His point, at least as I grok it, is that the coc can be perfect in wording, but due to the nature and incentives of its birth, he sees it as more a weapon that a rigorous and fair standard.

I think this is spot on... Seeing more of this everywhere

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#928

Post by shatteredvisage »

treeman79 wrote: post #746
superzamp wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone's threatening you or sexually assaulting you you're going to go the police, not report them for a code of conduct violation. I think they're right on point with this. Law is incredibly complex and you're likely to end up with a very shitty sub-implementation of the law when building a code of conduct, be it in itself or the application & litigation procedure. "Be nice to each other & follow the local off…

Worked briefly at a place where male developers were actively harassing female employees. Not extreme, but clearly unwanted behavior. 20 years professional work, first time Ive ever seen that. Noped out of there as fast I could. Now, As a white male, I’ve seen it going the other way much more lately. Walk into a place where it’s all about diversity and tolerance, but failing, because hiring for diversity means passin…

Preach brother. Preach.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#929

Post by techdragon »

KnobbleMcKnees wrote: post #525
blub wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're useless for their stated purpose, but they're quite useful for their real purpose: as a punishment tool used by social justice sadists which are parasitizing projects conferences and organizations.

This is the saddest part of all; not because of the toxic influence of these bad actors, but because it detracts from actual issues of discrimination and misconduct. What does anyone think happens when an organizer breaks the code of conduct? I can write the list of actions here:

Counterpoint to nothing happens when it’s the organisers violating the CoC. PyCon AU 2019 https://2019.pycon-au.org/news/inclusivity-and-political-sta...

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#930

Post by skinkestek »

jawarner wrote: post #910
skinkestek wrote: post #903

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one refuse to play this game anymore. I don't want to be part of a game where words can be arbitrarily redefined by one party to mean exactly what they want it to mean now. It is enough now. And this is coming from someone who wasn't allowed to play in the schoolyard as a child, someone who was knocked in the head by an older classmate, got beaten etc while teachers looked the other way. This went on until I le…

It's clear you've had experiences that have caused you to feel unsafe at times in your life. What's stopping you from having empathy for people that feel that way currently? One aspect of this newfangled definition of safe is that women can feel confident existing in a space without fear of being sexually harassed. Is that worth considering? Is that a political game?

> It's clear you've had experiences that have caused you to feel unsafe at times in your life. What's stopping you from having empathy for people that feel that way currently?

That the current approach is playing right into the hands of the bullies.

Or do you think it is the awkward ones who are sitting on the CoC tribunal?

As far as I can see this is yet another place for the socially and politically strong ones to get their way.

> One aspect of this newfangled definition of safe is that women can feel confident existing in a space without fear of being sexually harassed. Is that worth considering? Is that a political game?

I'm absolutely fine with women feeling safe. In fact there are at least a couple of women around who are thankful because I have fixed them a job or something. (To be clear, I help everyone, not only women.)

It is absolutely worth considering such things, which is why we (at least were I live) have laws against such things, and also why I am in favour of those laws.

What I am not in favour of is independent kangaroo courts popping up everywhere, making up rules as they go, combining the role of judge, jury and executioner etc.

Kangaroo courts are for war, and even then only when there's no other option.

Post reply on HN