Live data from Hacker News

Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

cbc.ca

81–90 of 184 posts

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#81
post #14

I'm wondering if just setting up a webcam in a public spot for a few years is enough these days to make a million bucks. I mean, don't you think that someone would buy a billion images of people walking about. It would be excellent for ML teams. LOL

Why would they pay someone $1 million for images that they can capture in a few weeks by parking a van with cameras in a crowded place?

If you need the content right now, vs rigging up a van and spending the required few weeks in it, and then the hassle of managing the RAW content.

You've basically just asked why stock photo/video companies exist.

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#82
I was wondering whether the numerical representations of individual faces were PCA numerical series. Principal Component Analysis (PCA) is the most common method for image-based recognition, image preprocessing, lossless compression, signal-noise analysis, and high resolution spectrum analysis.

PCA can transform an image into a set of unique components, where each component has a numerical degree of distance and relatedness from an agreed on centered component. The first component has the largest possible variance (it accounts for most of the variability in the group). Each succeeding component has the highest variance that is orthogonal to the preceding components. The transformation of the group proceeds linearly from a group with a high degree of dimensionality to a group with a low degree of dimensionality of which the components of the group with a low degree of dimensionality are uncorrelated.

PCA reduces the dimensionality of a complex group of possibly unrelated activities into a smaller group of principal components that accurately represent the entire group with minimum information loss and no loss of essential intrinsic information. PCA also reveals the internal structure of a group of possibly unrelated activities, it can be used to discover meaningful relationships based on commonalities the internal structure of the group shares with other activities that happened in the past. PCA is well known for forcasting with time-series analysis and regression analysis. In most cases the predictability of specific activities can be calculated with high percentages of certainity, by focusing the reconstruction of projected outcomes on the optimization/maximization of the variances of specific activities.

In addition by categorizing the images into age groups and gender groups that information would be very valuable beyond marketing in longer list of industries world-wide.

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#83
post #28

The system is apparently tracking age and gender of people visiting the information kiosk. This hardly seems like invasive tracking. Even tracking an individual's movement through the mall with the purpose of providing security and marketing analysis seems like a ho-hum no big deal to me. If they were then taking the data and finding those people through Ring or youtube videos, sharing the pictures of people with com…

> This hardly seems like invasive tracking.

For now. Give it a while and they'll be looking up your credit score as you walk through the door.

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#84
post #13

>The company also argued shoppers were made aware of the activity through decals it had placed on shopping mall entry doors that referred to Cadillac Fairview's privacy policy. Do what now? Physical spaces have privacy policies? We're really sleepwalking into a dystopia. If you don't like the privacy policy of your shopping mall, you're free to shop... online, where they get even more behavioral data on you. Yikes.

> shoppers were made aware of the activity through decals Indeed there's a huge glaring problem here: many of these malls have branded entrances (Shoppers Drug Mart, Best Buy, etc) through which a large portion of consumers walk into the mall, and these alleged decals are not present in those entrances. Here's an example [1]. Frankly I don't see said decals even in the non-branded entrances[2] They're going to have a…

Sorry but if you're taking their argument at face value that decals might be the way to go here and everything would be fine if only they were there, then they've basically won.

Don't get side tracked.

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#85
post #28

The system is apparently tracking age and gender of people visiting the information kiosk. This hardly seems like invasive tracking. Even tracking an individual's movement through the mall with the purpose of providing security and marketing analysis seems like a ho-hum no big deal to me. If they were then taking the data and finding those people through Ring or youtube videos, sharing the pictures of people with com…

its very similar to what a company called Locarise do in Japan. It's not identifying anyone, merely seeing buyer hotspots, queues, recording visitor numbers, etc. All very valuable to a mall and imo quite harmless to the user if they are not identified

They could later choose to sell this data and the buyer could deanonymize it by merging it with other purchased databases.

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#86
post #66

I think the courts have ruled that it is perfectly legal to record somebody outside of their home as that is considered public spaces. Many cities are now moving to embed cameras in street lights to deter and record crimes. I think that it is safe to assume that if you are outside, you are being recorded, either by a check point camera , a store’s security camera , streetlight camera or even your neighbor’s ring devi…

There are laws that paparazzi have to abide by. Maybe they should be applied here?

Paparazzi actually operate under a more leinient set of rules because their subject has chosen to make themselves a public figure.

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#87
post #54
post #15

If this is all privately held data that can't be accessed without a warrant... why not? Just so I'm clear, the argument against this is: - Merchants should be able to hire humans that sit around looking at camera screens all day trying to find shopping patterns, shoplifters, etc. - Any attempt to automate this tedious task is dystopian and evil ?

A piece of data on its own is usually pretty harmless, a gigantic database that is organized, categorized, and distributed, is potentially very harmful. And it's a smooth gradient between them. An example of data that is harmless on its own but harmful at scale is license plate reading. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/03/we-know-where-yo... a few points tells you that a person is in a city, a few more tells…

Exactly. It's the industrial scale collection, storage, analysis, and sharing of data that becomes a problem. I don't care of Joe Smith the security guard sees me pick my nose or scratch my ass when they're watching security cameras because it's not noteworthy to them and they're not going to recognize me or remember it.

However, I do care if the cameras are feeding into a huge system for analytics and data sharing. What if I cough 2x more than the average person? Does that get tracked, stored, and sold to a health insurance data supplier that ranks me as high risk for respiratory problems?

Does the machine learning algorithm that analyzes footage rank me as a potential thief if the database says I hang out in a lot of poor neighborhoods?

These will turn into class profiling systems that will amplify everything in your life so much that whatever your economic status is when you're born is what it'll be when you die.

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#89
post #50
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the fuck? Your position is that there's something virtuous about exchanging currency for goods as long as you can do it from home, but leaving your house to do it in person is substantively different at all, let alone worthy of disdain? Are you so hopelessly tribal that it doesn't even take a political ideology difference to dehumanize people on a different side? It just naturally hits you that someone with diff…

Oh I find online shopping even worse tbh.

So uhh, did you build the computer you used to post this comment from first principles? Do you grow all your own food from scratch? I'm not really sure where you're coming from with this disdain for people participating in the economy.
Post reply on HN