Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Violated a Code of Conduct

fast.ai

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

441–450 of 971 posts

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#441

Post by trhway »

dragonwriter wrote: post #404
trhway wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is a luxury of modern times. Century and more ago only upper classes were having debates/arguments/discussions because only they had the option to try to control their fate by trying to win those debates (and those white males had less diverse set of opinions then we have in the society today). The rest of society was consumed in daily grit for survival, they had no impact on decisions and whatever decisions were…

> Century and more ago only upper classes were having debates/arguments/discussions because only they had the option to try to control their fate by trying to win those debates. It still is. The working class footsoldiers aren't engaging in debates/arguments/discussions, they are being deployed as weapons, largely of intimidation, whose purpose isn't to convince others of what is true or right to believe, but what is…

that is a systems theory question - is true mass debate possible giving so far observed half-life of mere milliseconds before it gets desintegrated into mass propaganda. Basically it calls for new Shannon - what is the maximum information (in particular - can it be more than simple slogan?) can be communicated (i.e. received/understood and meaningfully (it is key point here, ie. at the level comparable to the received information) responded) in some massively parallel and may be partially ordered (yet definitely not totally sequential) manner in a massive graph of very diverse nodes.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#442

Post by NumberCruncher »

nickff wrote: post #62

This kind of post reminds me of some of the essays in "The God That Failed" (edited by Crossman).[1] When one is tried in this fashion, acknowledging that the 'institution' has any legitimacy is basically giving up, and the 'court' will not compromise or accept anything less than penance. The only option is to walk away, and try to avoid similar people and situations in the future. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T…

It's not about whether people sitting in the "committee meetings" of the "Code of Conduct Enforcement Team" are dickheads but it's about how you deal with it. Not acknowledging their legitimacy and walking away is a wise advise.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#443

Post by _kst_ »

erichocean wrote: post #400
echelon wrote: post #6

We're literally tearing ourselves apart, and I don't want to hold opinions about human beings anymore. Anyone can be an enemy or dislike you. Social media has rotted us from within and from all sides. Left, right, it doesn't matter. Everyone is so hostile and eager to end other people. This is madness. Yes, I did read the article. We're cancelling people over criticism . Somebody needs to hide Linus. I don't like cri…

In my experience, organizations and/or projects with a CoC are frequently humorless, causing more harm than they prevent. You hate to see it. Pro tip: If you can't figure out that Jeremy freaking Howard is a good person that you are lucky to have around, the problem is you.

Did you mean to say "isn't"?

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#444

Post by elric »

brigandish wrote: post #347

I've never seen a CoC used to help protect a community, only to protect certain already powerful members within a community and give them a tool with which to beat others. Lately I've been actively avoiding giving my time to open source projects that have CoC's like the Contributor Covenant[1], mainly because - if my experience is anything to go by - they are a strong signal that the kind of people I wish to avoid wi…

I've been wondering about this. Obviously there's a demand for CoCs coming from somewhere, or there wouldn't be a supply of them. What is driving this demand?

Is this demand driven by good intentions? By a genuine desire to improve diversity? To attract those who might otherwise feel less safe?

Is this demand driven by a "fear of being left out" because big names in tech are setting an example?

Is this demand entirely artificial, driven by power hungry people wallowing in self importance?

I don't have any answers here. I'm just curious. I can certainly agree with wanting to help rid the world of sexism and racism. I'm not sure whether a tech conference or open source project is the best forum for that change.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#445

Post by tomp »

flamble wrote: post #79
762236 wrote: post #49

I stopped reading when he said he's fine with cancel culture: since what is referred to as “cancellation” is often just “facing consequences” . No, cancel culture is bullying. Edit: I feel that the author was bullied, or mistreated, so I was primed to be upset when seeing his own dismissal of cancel culture.

It has always been the case that certain behaviors incur social opprobrium. I assume that you don't literally think that shaming or punishing someone for their actions is categorically wrong, regardless of the situation. I've seen Harvey Weinstein's conviction for multiple assaults referred to as "cancelling". Are you suggesting that we should totally refrain from judgment? The real debate is over (a) what kind of co…

Harvey Weinstein was cancelled long before he was also convicted.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#447

Post by raxxorrax »

softwaredoug wrote: post #68
ahelwer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I encourage anyone who believes social media has divided our society like never before to read a small amount of history of the Vietnam war era. Here's a taste: in 1970, the national guard murdered four unarmed students at Kent State. A poll showed 58% of Americans blamed the students, who were widely smeared. Maybe the real rot of social media is how it erases in peoples' minds the idea that anything could have happ…

I would also encourage reading about the press before the 20th century. Every random pamphleteer or newspaper churned up all kinds of despicable rumors or partisan rhetoric as bad or worse than Twitter. The idea of “objective press” is pretty new...

If you want a real open society, you need to address as many people as possible and the best way to do that is by including the most perspectives as possible. Journalism evolved here until financial incentives drove us back to strong opinions.

Propaganda undermines trust and it is actually far easier now to identify untruthful and biased news compared to the past. So a regression would be costly.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#448

Post by RonanTheGrey »

csnover wrote: post #380
newscracker wrote: post #184

After reading the entire post, I feel really bad for him, and I hope he gets the time off and the support necessary to recover from this incident. I also feel quite angry with how he has been treated. So please let me vent it out here as politely as I’m able to. I can imagine something like this or worse happening on social media groups, but an ostentatious “committee” that listens only to one side and never gives th…

> And the chuckling in the call when someone has already said they’re not in a proper emotional state is just bullying. I can’t speak to who this person was or why they did this, but I did just want to mention that there is at least one good faith explanation that isn’t straight up bullying. When I am in uncomfortable situations, I have a nervous chuckle. If I were in this call, giving this feedback to this person, I…

You're kind to interpret that as generously as you are. I mean that. I appreciate that. Forcing ourselves to see the other side is important, even if only to immediately discard it; because it's the practice of doing so that helps us when we really need it.

For me, I think it's unlikely the generous interpretation is correct, for only one reason: a group of 4 of them needed to call him, rather than a 1-1 conversation. This is a group dynamic that is well understood and they knew what they were doing, using the safety and strength of a group to ensure he couldn't push back. In such a scenario, one of the participants in said group is unlikely to be nervous in that way, although it's certainly possible (especially if they know, deep down, they're being unfair and are battling heavily with that feeling -- even the group strength won't help them).

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#449

Post by 1123581321 »

pdonis wrote: post #286
echelon wrote: post #6

We're literally tearing ourselves apart, and I don't want to hold opinions about human beings anymore. Anyone can be an enemy or dislike you. Social media has rotted us from within and from all sides. Left, right, it doesn't matter. Everyone is so hostile and eager to end other people. This is madness. Yes, I did read the article. We're cancelling people over criticism . Somebody needs to hide Linus. I don't like cri…

> Social media What does this particular incident have to do with social media? This was a presentation at a conference, and the "canceling" was convicting the presenter of a Code of Conduct violation on what look like egregiously inadequate grounds. They didn't block his Twitter feed or spam his Facebook page.

If I understand correctly, the idea is that the reports implicitly threaten the conference with attacks from social media if the conference does not quickly take an agreeable action.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#450

Post by mitchellbryson »

Yes CoCs are great, but be careful how you use them. Committees wielding their CoCs to the detrement of others is shameful. They give CoCs a bad name. Maybe there should be a 2nd committee, with a CoC for committees using them maliciously, a CoCCuM if you will.
Post reply on HN