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I Violated a Code of Conduct

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Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#391

Post by ThePowerOfDirge »

hodgesrm wrote: post #338
ekianjo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I encourage anyone who believes social media has divided our society like never before to read a small amount of history of the Vietnam war era. You are missing an important point though: with machine learning, you can make sure all social media will be optimized naturally to put the maximum amount of people's hair on fire, all the time. Outrage create clicks, replies, and with recommendations engines it's served t…

> Whatever manual interventions we had to make use of outrage before are like kids' play compared to the systems which automate this nowadays. I think you need to cite evidence for that view. There's a long history of terrible violence based on manipulation of religious animosity that predates the Internet. The Reformation movement in Germany triggered religious conflicts--incited by various secular powers--that last…

How many microhitlers per click?

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#392

Post by rasengan0 »

>CoC experts recommend using a CoC that focuses on a list of unacceptable behaviors.

Mr. Howard's experience is refreshing

Here's a sample of another 'sur'real example:

Expected behavior: Participate in an authentic and active way.

Unacceptable Behavior: Harassment includes: minimizing other people’s experiences

and yeah, i had to sign it or i don't get to play with the other kids

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#393

Post by pstuart »

silly-silly wrote: post #345
pstuart wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except these are "unless you are wearing what someone else doesn't find offensive". Interesting. I didn't see that example in the article -- could you cite such an example or are you just making something up?

I'm referring to your use of the dress code. Unlike the clearly written "No shoes, No Shirt - No Service" sign, the "sign" in this case is the relative offensiveness of ones behaviour. You just have to be offensive to "any single person" to trigger the "no service" condition.

It's a matter of degree, isn't it? At some point there's clearly a threshold of unacceptable behavior right?

The trick is to have that threshold be at a "reasonable" level. That's tricky and has room for error, but it doesn't mean it's not worth doing.

Note that my original response was to this statement: "As I see it, a CoC is a tool for those in power to better exert their influence and control."

We need guidelines for group activities, and they need to evolve as we learn more about the world, and framing this as a tool for power tripping is "the elites".

From the article, it appears that the "rules" were not well communicated and/or were poorly enforced. Blaming it on having a CoC vs. a person making poor choices is what I'm pushing back against.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#394

Post by trhway »

echelon wrote: post #6

We're literally tearing ourselves apart, and I don't want to hold opinions about human beings anymore. Anyone can be an enemy or dislike you. Social media has rotted us from within and from all sides. Left, right, it doesn't matter. Everyone is so hostile and eager to end other people. This is madness. Yes, I did read the article. We're cancelling people over criticism . Somebody needs to hide Linus. I don't like cri…

it is a luxury of modern times. Century and more ago only upper classes were having debates/arguments/discussions because only they had the option to try to control their fate by trying to win those debates (and those white males had less diverse set of opinions then we have in the society today). The rest of society was consumed in daily grit for survival, they had no impact on decisions and whatever decisions were taken it was for them akin to a weather or geological events. These days everybody can participate, thanks to economic development and communication tools and especially social media. Though not everybody has sufficiently trained mental toolset to handle it.

>Everyone is so hostile and eager to end other people.

Couple centuries ago disagreement could easily end up as a duel resulting in a death and losing a political fight may have had more severe consequences than just losing an elected office. These days usually only ego is damaged. And even that - in the current environment criticism is equaled with harassment (so egos are safe and happily growing large and larger...) Thus as a result in particular proliferation of alternative facts, etc. Kind of multiverse of quantum mechanics.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#395

Post by pindab0ter »

robbyoconnor wrote: post #298
refulgentis wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It, seemingly, isn't inevitable - I can count on one, _maybe_ two hands the number of unfair incidents I've heard since I started hearing people trumpeting the dark side view that 100% absolutely all power is put into service of evil, always.

I initially thought "oh, another guy whining" but this seems to not be the case here but rather a case of a really piss-poor code of conduct.

The author quotes the CoC in his article and none of the points come even close to being a base to judge him on. This instance is about power abuse by a committee that doesn’t even have a basis in the CoC.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#396

Post by pitay »

flamble wrote: post #79
762236 wrote: post #49

I stopped reading when he said he's fine with cancel culture: since what is referred to as “cancellation” is often just “facing consequences” . No, cancel culture is bullying. Edit: I feel that the author was bullied, or mistreated, so I was primed to be upset when seeing his own dismissal of cancel culture.

It has always been the case that certain behaviors incur social opprobrium. I assume that you don't literally think that shaming or punishing someone for their actions is categorically wrong, regardless of the situation. I've seen Harvey Weinstein's conviction for multiple assaults referred to as "cancelling". Are you suggesting that we should totally refrain from judgment? The real debate is over (a) what kind of co…

I always thought of cancel culture as people facing "consequences" for their opinions, rather than their actions. Although I guess the can also be applied fairly innocuous actions that don't cause much (or any) harm.

The common thing with both is that it has people make mountains out of molehills. How can you trust someone that is willing to damage someone's life for something that small or non-existent, especially if it is just an opinion. They could easily come for you if they don't like something you say or do.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#398

Post by ckiA4U61 »

tptacek wrote: post #344
offbyone wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apropos of nothing related, I want to know: What, exactly, were you confident yet wrong about in regards to bay leaves?

Someone asked on Twitter what, if any, flavor bay leaves had. I repeated advice I'd heard: supermarket bay leaves are bad, so just add a lot of them. Then I acted on another piece of advice: if you want to know what bay leaves taste like, steep them in water and taste the water. I did. Bay leaves are disgusting. Nobody should add more of them to anything.

What you're saying is true, but consider this also: America's Test Kitchen made identical versions of a bunch of recipes with identical ingredients on identical equipment simultaneously, and with no exceptions, the tasting panel preferred the ones containing bay leaves, but interestingly, they couldn't state exactly why.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#399

Post by donw »

waterhouse wrote: post #386
closeparen wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earlier this year I had the occasion to do some reading on self-esteem, self-confidence, and self-love. I think this critique is a bit divorced from what the psychologists are actually saying. For starters, the "movement" is definitely aware of your dichotomy. The terms of art are contingent and non-contingent . It considers contingent self-esteem to be fragile because real lives contain setbacks. Its position is bas…

> divorced from what the psychologists are actually saying Let me throw out the possibility that what the psychologists are saying, and the nth-hand version that teachers pick up and teach to the kids, may differ on key details. I don't think it's even rare for high-minded ideas to be garbled by the time they trickle down into classrooms. Feynman had amusing/dismaying stories about what made it into science textbooks…

That's pretty much where I was going.

The psychology and underlaying theory looks sound, and is indeed very aligned with the Stoic approach. Problem is that the classroom implementation ended up almost a full 180 degrees out of phase.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#400

Post by erichocean »

echelon wrote: post #6

We're literally tearing ourselves apart, and I don't want to hold opinions about human beings anymore. Anyone can be an enemy or dislike you. Social media has rotted us from within and from all sides. Left, right, it doesn't matter. Everyone is so hostile and eager to end other people. This is madness. Yes, I did read the article. We're cancelling people over criticism . Somebody needs to hide Linus. I don't like cri…

In my experience, organizations and/or projects with a CoC are frequently humorless, causing more harm than they prevent. You hate to see it.

Pro tip: If you can't figure out that Jeremy freaking Howard is a good person that you are lucky to have around, the problem is you.

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