Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Violated a Code of Conduct

fast.ai

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 971 posts

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#311

Post by the_only_law »

labster wrote: post #303
junon wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the very same boat.

The solution to low karma — if, indeed, you care about such things, is to make productive comments. Most of us have heard all of the simple one-liner thoughts before, we want something that might be insightful and novel. And politics-adjacent threads like these are not the place to earn karma, because lots of people will always disagree. But it’s an excellent place to lose karma. A lot of us go to places like HN, Ars…

> The solution to low karma — if, indeed, you care about such things, is to make productive comments.

Fwiw my most upvoted comments are typically my lowest effort comments. Typically either low effort "me too" type confirmations or sarcastic quips that happened to be in favor of whoever was browsing the thread. [What I beleive to be] my more productive, thoughtful, on topic comments tend to mostly get ignored. This has been the case everytime I've tried to use this site. I beleive the the best way to get karma is a mix of proper timing / estimating what the popular opinion / point / etc. will be in a given thread. There are also certain topics and subjects that no matter how well you approach them will typically get you trashed.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#312

Post by toast0 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #162

This is a great example of how codifying good behavior into an all-encompassing Code of Conduct has a lot of unintended consequences. The organization's Code of Conduct was so broad-reaching, thorough, and explicit that it doesn't appear to have left any leeway for common sense. Why did they simply follow the explicit procedures of the CoC rather than stopping to question if what they were doing was the right thing t…

> Why did they simply follow the explicit procedures of the CoC rather than stopping to question if what they were doing was the right thing to do?

> I suspect they were afraid to deviate from their own Code of Conduct, for fear that the 2 complainants would use social media to criticize the event operators.

As described, they didn't follow the procedures as written, nor did they follow through on the procedure as suggested in their early communications.

They didn't seem to have a problem with deviating from their code of conduct.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#313

Post by googthrowaway42 »

tptacek wrote: post #307
googthrowaway42 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe it's not what's being said but how it's being said. This is the kind of rhetoric I'm referring to when I say Kafkaesque. These people derive power from being victims so if they are given this benefit of the doubt you are granting them where the onus is on some person to walk on eggshells lest that person upset the perpetually upset these perpetual victims will of course announce they are upset and victimized…

You know it's possible for us to just disagree about things, right?

Yes of course but in this case you're just wrong. This is a very well documented pattern of behavior at this point. Fortunately you're not my boss or colleague and so you can continue to promulgate these structures that cause a lot of misery and distress and lost productivity and I will continue to avoid being subject to them.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#314

Post by SamReidHughes »

gwbas1c wrote: post #232
barumi wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Using CoC's to backstab people is not going to end well. But that's their only usecase, isn't it? CoCs are just a convenient document aimed at helping out Cardinal Richelieus finding ways to hang you under the guise of breaking acceptable conduct. I mean, CoCs aren't aimed at changing people and make everyone nice. CoCs are aimed at providing a basis to persecute those who arguably don't comply with a given notion…

No, CoCs are meant to clearly state that bigotry is unacceptable. If you don't understand why it's necessary at times to clearly state what bigotry is, and why it's unacceptable, than you need to learn a bit more about diversity topics. They (CoC)s shouldn't be used to play power games. It's totally appropriate to call out situations where a CoC is used incorrectly.

CoC's were created because SJW's needed to pretend that sex differences in open source contribution aren't caused by intrinsic sex differences.

Or maybe that's the naive explanation, and it's just to exercise power.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#315

Post by anotherevan »

bawolff wrote: post #31
echelon wrote: post #6

We're literally tearing ourselves apart, and I don't want to hold opinions about human beings anymore. Anyone can be an enemy or dislike you. Social media has rotted us from within and from all sides. Left, right, it doesn't matter. Everyone is so hostile and eager to end other people. This is madness. Yes, I did read the article. We're cancelling people over criticism . Somebody needs to hide Linus. I don't like cri…

> I don't like criticism. I was bullied a lot as a kid. I don't like the idea of conflating "bullying" and "criticism". They're very different things. Even harsh criticism isn't really the same thing as bullying in my mind (Although it can be a part of bullying).

I'm not sure the OP was conflating the two so much as acknowledging that he may be particularly sensitive in this area due to past experiences.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#316

Post by toast0 »

ben0x539 wrote: post #174
strken wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in new projects from now on I'll start running echo "Don't be a dickhead, or I'll block you from the repo until you stop." > CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md Not needlessly aggressive, gets the point across, short, covers everything someone could do wrong, provides consequences and a pathway to reconciliation.

It doesn't communicate what you consider to be dickhead behavior, so it invites fear, uncertainty and doubt both in whether my behavior is okay, and in what behavior of other participants I can expect to be "protected" from.

Did you think it was cool to be a dickhead when there wasn't an explicit no dickheads allowed rule?

I don't think I'd use the wtfcoc, but it's just being explicit that the owner of the repo can block you if desired, which some people need to have said.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#317

Post by [deleted] »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #274
free_rms wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's in charge of "unpleasant things"? Are these things that a vast majority of the anglosphere, including POC, women, etc, wouldn't take offense to? Maybe people are objecting to a tiny % of critical theorists trying to seize control of acceptable language with no mandate.

> Maybe people are objecting to a tiny % of critical theorists trying to seize control of acceptable language from the top down. The problem with that tiny % is, that they are loud, and that we give them attention. And by we, i include everyone, from a reddit upvter to mainstream media. It's 2020, milk is racist, rice is racist, syrup is racist,... and all that because of a few loud people powered by the media, grabb…

[deleted]

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#318

Post by Pyxl101 »

seanwilson wrote: post #147
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vocal minority is enough to dox you, to bother your workplace, your school/college, to get you fired/expelled, and alltogether, to make you "too hot" to hire, especially by large tech companies, who have whole departments of "vocal minority" people dealing with tiny stuff like that. Cancel culture has to stop.

What do you concretely think should be done though? Aren't there already laws about harassing people? I think the news should be more responsible by not reporting that someone was offended by something unless it has serious objective merit because it just gets everyone riled up on non-issues for no good reason. Aside from that, "cancel culture" feels quite a vague topic that would be hard to police in any way because…

News is totally fucked. Look at how most media reported on James Damore being fired from Google, and what they quoted him as having saying, vs what he actually said (1).

According to the media, Damore called women "neurotic" and said they were "biologically unfit to be software engineers". Nothing close whatsoever to what was actually said (1).

Meanwhile there are university professors willing to defend the memo (2). For example, "For what it’s worth, I think that almost all of the Google memo’s empirical claims are scientifically accurate. Moreover, they are stated quite carefully and dispassionately. Its key claims about sex differences are especially well-supported by large volumes of research across species, cultures, and history." (Geoffrey Miller, evolutionary psychology professor at University of New Mexico)

(1) https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I...

(2) https://quillette.com/2017/08/07/google-memo-four-scientists...

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#319

Post by pstuart »

silly-silly wrote: post #83
pstuart wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As I see it, a CoC is a tool It's a tool for communicating expectations of behavior. There's nothing wrong about managing expectations. Think of it as the next level "no shoes, no shirt, no service". Unfortunately, tools can be abused, and this case was no exception. It doesn't mean that the tool should be discarded, it should be refined.

Except these are "unless you are wearing what someone else doesn't find offensive". This requires a fashion sense that keeps 100% of people happy enough not to report you.

> Except these are "unless you are wearing what someone else doesn't find offensive".

Interesting. I didn't see that example in the article -- could you cite such an example or are you just making something up?

Post reply on HN