Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Violated a Code of Conduct

fast.ai

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 971 posts

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#31

Post by bawolff »

echelon wrote: post #6

We're literally tearing ourselves apart, and I don't want to hold opinions about human beings anymore. Anyone can be an enemy or dislike you. Social media has rotted us from within and from all sides. Left, right, it doesn't matter. Everyone is so hostile and eager to end other people. This is madness. Yes, I did read the article. We're cancelling people over criticism . Somebody needs to hide Linus. I don't like cri…

> I don't like criticism. I was bullied a lot as a kid.

I don't like the idea of conflating "bullying" and "criticism". They're very different things. Even harsh criticism isn't really the same thing as bullying in my mind (Although it can be a part of bullying).

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#32

Post by marcinzm »

wbl wrote: post #26
avhon1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A key part of "implemented well" is the interpretation and execution by whoever is in charge. Unfortunately, there isn't really a way to know, or ensure, that a group of people will act in good faith and accordance with a document that they say they adhere to. That seems to have been part of the problem here -- Mr. Howard notes several ways in which the committee acted against their own code. I think this is (part of…

Bad leadership is going to make bad decisions regardless.

The impact of their decisions however depends on the level of power they wield. A CoC gives them more power to wield.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#33

Post by friendlybus »

wbl wrote: post #26
avhon1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A key part of "implemented well" is the interpretation and execution by whoever is in charge. Unfortunately, there isn't really a way to know, or ensure, that a group of people will act in good faith and accordance with a document that they say they adhere to. That seems to have been part of the problem here -- Mr. Howard notes several ways in which the committee acted against their own code. I think this is (part of…

Bad leadership is going to make bad decisions regardless.

Hence systems that are designed to resist abuse, like some versions of democracy and internal police agencies.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#35

Post by leblancfg »

So sad to hear about your health issues Jeremy. Wishing you the best during this time.

I _do_ hope you reconsider on barring your speaking engagements however. Bad gigs will happen. But you are stronger than that. =)

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#36

Post by bawolff »

tptacek wrote: post #27
tschwimmer wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Each conference has their own goals, but I'd think that a general thread that underlies all of them is the exchange of ideas. If you can't criticize ideas ("Joe Schmoe is wrong about X"), then I'd say you're not doing a great job of exchanging ideas. I think preventing attendees from criticizing people ("Joe Schmoe is dumb") is perfectly fine, but that's clearly not what happened here.

Like I said: it's a surprising norm for a conference. But if it's clearly communicated, it's fine. It's just that kind of event. Here, it wasn't clearly communicated; if the author had seen the norm, they'd have presented something else, or not at all. What I reject is the idea that all spaces are somehow required to make space for criticism. There are spaces where that rule doesn't make sense. We're unlikely to find…

I have trouble imagining why anyone would want to go to a conference where any and all criticism is banned. Is it even possible to say something meaningful without implicitly criticizing the opposite of whatever you are saying?

However I agree with you in as much as, if some folks who think its a good idea all get together and communicate it clearly, there's nothing wrong with that. I probably wouldn't go, but there's a lot of conferences in the world I don't "get" and have no desire to go to, and that's ok.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#37

Post by pstuart »

marcinzm wrote: post #29
notRobot wrote: post #10

Stuff like this is what gives CoCs a bad rep, although when implemented well, they can be hugely beneficial to communities.

As I see it, a CoC is a tool for those in power to better exert their influence and control. If those in power are just and competent then it's a tool for good. If those in power are selfish or unskilled then it's a tool for ill. Unfortunately, I suspect the latter is much more often the case than the former.

> As I see it, a CoC is a tool

It's a tool for communicating expectations of behavior. There's nothing wrong about managing expectations. Think of it as the next level "no shoes, no shirt, no service".

Unfortunately, tools can be abused, and this case was no exception. It doesn't mean that the tool should be discarded, it should be refined.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#38

Post by LeonB »

tptacek wrote: post #7

This is one of those posts where the title is going to trigger a lot of unproductive subthreads, but the piece itself seems pretty balanced and thoughtful (and links to Valerie Aurora's excellent code-of-conduct training deck). The thing HN likes to do best with any story is to generalize it and find sweeping conclusions. Here, I think the story is pretty much just: people screw up, and if your project has a code of…

agreed. it deserves a response of "this is true, code of conducts need to be done thoughtfully and well" but can expect a response of "this proves babies should be discarded with bath water"
Post reply on HN