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When will web browsers be complete?

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Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#191
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google AMP and Facebook Instant Articles are doing this.

Yeah, you're right. I hoped it wouldn't come from the giants, but as a grassroots tech thing, but I guess we don't live in that world any more.

The attempts I've seen from the community seem intentionally hobbled. Gemini intentionally doesn't even support inline images.

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#192
post #5

"There is not much left for a Web browser to cover" - this reminded me of the famous "physics is mostly complete at this point." Web (browser) is the only cross-platform operating system, even if some standards say otherwise. I'm sure we'll see docker-style virtual web environments, cross-machine abstractions to simulate datacenters for distributed computing (GPU and such), PWA-style webapps bootable from USB sticks…

> I'm sure we'll see docker-style virtual web environments, cross-machine abstractions to simulate datacenters for distributed computing (GPU and such)

Running Windows98 in javascript: http://copy.sh/v86/?profile=windows98

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#193
post #59

Quick comment on the presentation. This post could very easily be markdown and therefore rendered in a nice readable non-monospaced font. Instead it's a .txt and it's really painful to read. Edit: here's a rendered markdown conversion that is easier on the eyes: https://shrib.com/?v=nc#CapeStarling-6v1L9J

How is that easier to read? https://wtf.roflcopter.fr/pics/SpRqNBvB/0QUVpbN4.png

Ugh, it looked better on my screen.

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#194
I hope this doesn't classify as trolling; But isn't it ironic that the author uses a GitHub gist to share this plain text essay? Had to click "View Raw" to read it on mobile.

I know the essay is about more topics than just documents vs apps. Still that shows to me that "The principle of least power" doesn't easily apply to technology choices of web users. GitHub was probably more convenient for the author than uploading a txt file somewhere.

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#195

Why plural? Probably "the web browser" is more correct term these days, no? The idea of "browser as OS" or "OS as browser" is not that new. That move started by "active desktop" concept on Windows 95 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Desktop ). And speaking about browser... It's main goal is to serve following tasks: 1. To provide safe browsing experience. 2. To present content to the user. Note that the order o…

Soon CPUs and GPUs will be so fast and so efficient and so cheap that it doesn't matter.

That's never ending story.

As soon as you will have better GPU you will have better native native games that use HW at maximum extent. They will work at the magnitude of times better than what WebGL emulation layer will offer you. So hi-end games will always be native.

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#196
post #30

When this essay started with "As someone who has used the Web since 2007" I immediately felt old, so thanks for that. As someone who has been using the Web since 1994 (and I feel like I was late to the game), I can assure the author their perspective has a lot of recency bias and this isn't something to worry about, in the general sense. Or worry about it, because it already happened a while ago. Take your pick. Loca…

> This essay could've been written in 2002...about Internet Explorer. I've been reading a whitepaper from ~1997 on Microsoft's Distributed COM (DCOM) last night, and as I was reading it, I couldn't stop thinking: this is microservices. And it was really more than that - at least on the surface, this was microservices + orchestration + autoscaling + serverless, as well as, via Internet Explorer, component-based UIs wi…

If you are interested in those properties, you might like something i'm working on that i'm about to launch.

Its nothing like COM, but a vision of what moderns browsers engines could turn into (focusing on the properties you have mentioned).

We should not let "them" dictate dumb clients (and apps) to us that consume from the fog that "the cloud" is.

This is a corporate trend that will take a lot of freedom from us, and if we let them have their way, it will be pretty hard to get us all out of this nightmarish future we are heading to.

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#197
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KDE and GNOME agreed in the early days that both desktops would be based on COBRA and use standard object names so the two would be compatible. After fighting COBRA for a while KDE said this is too complex/slow and wrote DCOM (I might remember this name wrong) which gave them the parts they wanted without the overhead. GNOME stuck with COBRA longer, but I get the sense that they half agreed and were just hoping they…

The issue with KDE was that Qt was nonfree so there was also a few efforts to replace Qt with something else.

That is why gnome existed (now it is large enough to have a place), but a completely different issue from the corba one.

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#198

They'll be complete when users have absolutely no way to interact with a web page other than what was explicitly intended by the company serving the web page, and when every possible interaction between the user and their computer is reported back to the the web page they're accessing. There will be three browsers: The "Safe Browser" which will be used by 85% of people, the "Smart Browser" which will be used by 5% of…

Stunning. Your nickname is really fitting :)

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#199
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should separate ideas/proof of concepts that were in the field and presented as having potential, and implementations that are largely adopted and reliable. There will always be a lag between the two, and it won’t just be ‘reinventing the wheel’. I had a look at CORBA and it was horrible in many ways. Interestingly it’s something that works and is proven at large scale but nobody would want to have it for…

How on earth can anyone think that each application having to individually implement support for a bespoke "dark mode" is a better situation than having more granular controls in the OS and applications just follow the UI guidelines is beyond me. It's bullshit like that that makes me want to leave IT forever.

It’s because reality is complicated.

Most people don’t want “dark mode” as a pure accessibility feature in the sense of “whatever color scheme is fine as long as it’s dark everywhere”. That’s the reverse color feature in most OS.

Instead I/they want dark themes but with pleasing colors, adjusted depending on the screens and the widgets, having sane defaults for content that is usually supposed to be white, with exceptions.

Yes, that’s a tall order, it’s context dependent, and we might actually want to decide app by app if the dev did a good job and/or if dark mode makes sense, and sometimes change the theme in the app because it’s otherwise not great.

We end up in a patchwork of apps following dark mode and others not, with different themes applied that might not be triggered by the system.

For instance I use youtube, reddit and editing apps in dark mode only, while the rest of the system is in light mode. As you say it could be handled by the system in a super granular way, but it would add that much more complexity, and I actually chose the exact themes to be used in most of these apps, so centralization wouldn’t help anyway.

Re: When will web browsers be complete?

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This essay could've been written in 2002...about Internet Explorer. I've been reading a whitepaper from ~1997 on Microsoft's Distributed COM (DCOM) last night, and as I was reading it, I couldn't stop thinking: this is microservices. And it was really more than that - at least on the surface, this was microservices + orchestration + autoscaling + serverless, as well as, via Internet Explorer, component-based UIs wi…

If you are interested in those properties, you might like something i'm working on that i'm about to launch. Its nothing like COM, but a vision of what moderns browsers engines could turn into (focusing on the properties you have mentioned). We should not let "them" dictate dumb clients (and apps) to us that consume from the fog that "the cloud" is. This is a corporate trend that will take a lot of freedom from us, a…

I'm interested. Please, tell us more, and/or drop me an email (address in profile).
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