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Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

sketch.com

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Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#271

Post by whywhywhywhy »

sgt wrote: post #204
martinald wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing IMO that really killed Sketch was not being able to share Sketch files with non-Mac users and let them open them up. They should have at least created a Windows/Linux (or web) viewer. They don't need edit functionality but nearly always someone in the approval/feedback process of a mockup will not be on Mac. It's just not realistic at larger orgs (or IMO smaller ones too) to expect everyone to be on a Mac.…

Ridiculous statement. Sketch is very much alive and it can survive on Mac-only users for a long time going forward as well, if they decide to.

Am I the only one who doesn't think Apple have much interest in supporting classic MacOS apps in the future?

Back in the day we used to judge the viability of Apples new techon if the Adobe suite was using them. This was a big deal during the Classic to OS X switch and the PPC to Intel switch.

I'm convinced Apple sees the future of Macs as running iPad apps, Photoshop and Illustrator are already there. Just how many other classic Mac apps do you think Apple consider critical? I think I can name 8.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#272

Post by dharma1 »

tomovo wrote: post #250

"And thank you, Apple, for giving us a place to call home." The underlying rendering tech is based on Apple frameworks so they are not "home". They are stuck. What a nice way of saying it. Targetting a single platform and taking advantage of its features is totally fine for a small developer or niche app. It's a lot easier to get going, maintenance costs are lower. However for a big app like Sketch cutting corners li…

I think platform specific frameworks that won't work anywhere else easily will be detrimental to Apple in the long term. I think it's ultimately in Apple's interest to try to make tooling that enables MacOS/iOS apps to work on other platforms too, including the web.

Even their own apps would benefit from this. What if iMessage and FaceTime were cross-platform? Short term, maybe it was a moat for Apple - but now there are so many other cross-platform apps which will slowly kill the Apple-only ones because of network effects (pronounced in chat/calling/social apps).

I think iMessage and FaceTime could have taken significant market share from WhatsApp and Zoom/Skype - this will become even more relevant when those apps become more platform-like (WeChat style).

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#273

Post by whywhywhywhy »

cawlin wrote: post #131
isodev wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Figma is not a viable alternative if you're anything but a digital designer. There are still print designers, packaging designers, exhibit designers, illustrators, the list goes on. I don’t see Sketch as dead, if anything it’s been getting a lot of cool new features over the past months.

Is Sketch doing anything for print? I haven't used it for a few years now and back then it was digital only.

Sketch isn't a print design tool, that is all still very locked up in Adobe with Affinity being the only real competitor. Not sure why it's being brought up in this context.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#274

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

Naushad wrote: post #176

What Sketch is doing in the post is marketing their constraint as their strength. Some reasons on why Sketch is not a good design tool: 1. Exclusion: Sketch was never cross-platform. There by excluding people. Design is all about inclusion. There have been numerous requests to make sketch available on windows. 2. Apple only: Sketch was made to design stuff for Apple Ecosystem and that mostly remains that way. 3. Cost…

> Design is all about inclusion.

Just pointing out that your post is built on this fallacy.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#275

Post by whywhywhywhy »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #251

> For us, the ultimate benefit of being a native macOS app is that it puts the choice in your hands. Except the choice of using another brand of computer.

In the current world where Apple's computer choices are so restricted, locking yourself into that platform seems a bad idea. I was a Mac only user for about 19 years but was forced to use PCs again recently because Apple just didn't sell a machine the level of performance I need for 3D/Video work, even if money were no object. I mean they sell the Mac Pro again now but it's embarrassing how much it's put to shame for a fraction of the price when you can just use gaming GPUs for a CUDA render engine.

Figma has been a godsend allowing me to do my 2D design work on any platform.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#276

Post by whywhywhywhy »

ravivyas wrote: post #187
kitsunesoba wrote: post #94

One thing I really appreciate about Sketch over Figma for my solo projects is that it’s offline-first. Call me old fashioned but I don’t want my designs or the app I use to design to be so strongly tethered to the web.

Totally agree on this, Paying for Sketch once, has allowed me to used it for years, largely on solo/non collaborative work

You can't pay for it once if you use it as a team because a file made on the latest version of the app can't be opened in older versions so all it takes is one person on your team to be out of sync with versions and you need to pay.

It's a generous subscription, but it's still basically a subscription once you're not working in a silo.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#277

Post by rojcyk »

kevsim wrote: post #246
chrismsimpson wrote: post #189

Colleagues I work with swear by Figma, but five minutes after giving it yet another try for the N-th time I find myself needing to charge my suddenly depleted battery (even using Safari) and wanting to cut my wrists. Janky doesn’t even come close to describing the user experience of Figma, and I’m on a 2019 16” MBP. In my opinion, Figma really is that bad. On the flip side, Sketch Cloud sucks rocks so we share our sk…

Interesting! On the same machine as you have, I find Figma to be OK in terms of performance (not as snappy as Sketch). The loading time kills me though. I also had to download the electron app because switching to a Figma tab noticeably locked up Chrome for a second or two.

You need to change the way you think about files with Figma.

In Sketch, ppl use to have everything in one huge file. Lots of variants, a/b tests, different flows. But with Figma, you need to make a library of shared components, and split everything into smaller files so you don't have to redownload the whole design every time you want to put a comment on something. This does require you to sub though.

Source: I'm helping companies setup their Figma processes and files structure so they can work effectively. This approach works the best.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#278

Post by Griffinsauce »

weejewel wrote: post #17

Obviously they’re feeling the heat from Figma which is browser-based. I do absolutely agree that native apps are a much better experience. I prefer Paw over postman every time for this reason too. However creating a Sketch plugin which downloads a simple JSON was an absolute nightmare.

That is the core difference.

When you develop with native you get performance and UI for free. When you develop with the web you get.. the web.

This is also why people fundamentally disagree on whether one or the other is good: they have different outcomes that fit different needs.

Obviously if collaboration is needed, being in web technology helps a lot since you're already inside a communication platform.

If your need is "single person focus" then that brings no value.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#279

Post by donbrae »

siralonso wrote: post #267

These two things are simultaneously true: 1. The experience of using a native app is substantially superior to web/electron. 2. Figma has done an amazing job of building features to support teams and organizations. I used to use Sketch, and now I use Figma. Do I wish Figma had a native macOS app? Absolutely. Would it be better than the web/electron app? Definitely. Native vs web isn't a feature differentiation - it's…

In my admittedly limited testing I cannot fault the Figma web app in terms of responsiveness. Maybe it struggles with larger projects?

I think the web generally has these kind of use cases covered, although it would be nice to have the other things you mention (file system/iCloud integration, better accessibility [based on my understanding of Canvas' limitations in this area] etc.).

On the other hand, applications like Logic or Final Cut would be pretty much impossible to build in the browser.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#280

Post by whywhywhywhy »

fxtentacle wrote: post #52

By now, I'd treat Apple-exclusive app developers for Stockholm syndrome. I used to build a Mac-only native app for real-time audio processing, which was great for battery life, snappy performance and had no latency. But the work that Apple pushed on me just to keep things running okay-ish across OS releases was too much to bear compared with the meager revenue of only serving 10% of the addressable market. By now, my…

>Apple is happy to sacrifice their loyal developers in the name of profits

There are no product people left in charge at Apple. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4VBqTViEx4

Most of the product moves now are just BOM reductions or ways to milk more service revenue. Calling it now, the Native Mac OS App this blog post champions won't exist in 10 years. Apple will kill it because iPads and iPhones outnumber Macs, the norm for Apple now is to get a cut of software sales and the sort of Native app Sketch represents doesn't get them that cut.

The future of MacOS is it's the place you go to multitask "the iPad apps you know and love". This will be a bitter pill for myself and everyone here to swallow but if you believe I'm wrong then what you actually believe is that Tim Cook understands the value of an open operating system enough to justify not getting a cut on all those software sales, do you truly believe that?

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