Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App • Hacker News Board

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#241

Post by arvinsim » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 9:33 AM UTC

LegitShady wrote: post #168

voodoomagicman wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a really useful free tier - I think the paid tier mostly includes collaboration features.

I had a recent experience with autodesk that shows that free tiers can disappear or be neutered after you've invested significant time and energy into them. If you just owned that version of the software it would work forever instead you are at the mercy of the platform forever. Caveat emptor

Except some non-subscription software are still SaaS in disguise.

Take a look at Sketch. You can use a file on future versions...but up to a point. If you hit that limit, you will have to buy the upgrade.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#242

Post by drcongo » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 9:35 AM UTC

noen wrote: post #173

Design is communication. I loved sketch and was a devout user for years. But with Sketch, I can only communicate with a very small set of people. It required a plethora of other tools and services to share, get feedback, or insights on my work. The tool is only as effective as the reach of its creation. If technology has shown us anything in this generation, it is that reach and collaboration are immensely more valua…

This entire post can be summed up as "I haven't used Sketch for a long time and had therefore completely missed the introduction of Sketch.cloud"

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#243

Post by saagarjha » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 9:36 AM UTC

jcelerier wrote: post #237

saagarjha wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accessibility features are used by people regardless of whether they have visual accessibility issues. For example, I (and many others–watch some WWDC presentations closely and you'll see this) use the "display zoom" feature during presentations and when doing UI work to focus on things. The feature where you wiggle the mouse cursor to make it big? That's an accessibility feature, but it got a prime spot at the keyno…

of all the features you mention, except TTS none depend on the app being written in a specific framework as far as I know ? (and I don't remember TTS not working in e.g. Qt apps for instance - at least I know that I sometimes bash my keyboards repeatedly to stop the damn thing that I opened by whatever goddamn shortcut :D)

This was a direct response to your comment, so I was mainly focused on what accessibility features I use. However, one I missed but I use all the time is being able to control applications using accessibility APIs.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#244

Post by arvinsim » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 9:41 AM UTC

isodev wrote: post #124

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, and I think this is a pretty good signal that Sketch is REALLY feeling the heat from Figma, because they aren't offering a better argument besides "we're native". The bandwagon has clearly jumped off Sketch and onto Figma, and not because it's "fashionable", but because Figma is plain awesome.

Figma is not a viable alternative if you're anything but a digital designer. There are still print designers, packaging designers, exhibit designers, illustrators, the list goes on. I don’t see Sketch as dead, if anything it’s been getting a lot of cool new features over the past months.

I thought that Adobe and Affinity are the only ones fighting in that front.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#245

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 9:45 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #228

nmfisher wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never miss an opportunity to publicly restate just how god-awful XCode is. I think it is literally the worst developer tool I have ever come across. I don’t think I have ever heard one good thing said about it. Coming mostly from a Windows desktop background, I only started developing for Apple devices late on. Holy shit, I can’t believe people have been putting themselves through that horrible experience for the b…

People who use Xcode long enough usually get through the phase where they hate it with every fiber of their being. It's like Stockholm syndrome, except you realize your captor wants you to be happy but is also kind of insane.

> It's like Stockholm syndrome, except you realize your captor wants you to be happy but is also kind of insane.

I love that metaphor!

The main issue I have with Xcode, is that it is buggy as hell. I was hoping Xcode 12 would address this, but it’s just as bad as its predecessors.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#246

Post by kevsim » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 9:49 AM UTC

chrismsimpson wrote: post #189

Colleagues I work with swear by Figma, but five minutes after giving it yet another try for the N-th time I find myself needing to charge my suddenly depleted battery (even using Safari) and wanting to cut my wrists. Janky doesn’t even come close to describing the user experience of Figma, and I’m on a 2019 16” MBP. In my opinion, Figma really is that bad. On the flip side, Sketch Cloud sucks rocks so we share our sk…

Interesting! On the same machine as you have, I find Figma to be OK in terms of performance (not as snappy as Sketch). The loading time kills me though. I also had to download the electron app because switching to a Figma tab noticeably locked up Chrome for a second or two.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#247

Post by shp0ngle » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 10:03 AM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #129

parhamn wrote: post #85

One thing I think people aren't pointing out is how much Figma seems to have done [1] to make the web platform work for them in the way Sketch is describing the Mac App. It almost seems like a technical moat of sorts. Achieving the ridiculous snappiness Figma in browsers is certainly non-trivial. [1] https://www.figma.com/blog/building-a-professional-design-to...

It’s snappy for a web app. If it was a native app it would be mediocre.

the thing with web apps is - it's slow, but it is the Java's original goal from the 90s "write once, run everywhere" actually realized. Plus, built-in collaborativeness and automatic updates. And, easier to get developers.

Native is nice, native is fast, and it will have its place (compare how bad is Google Meet compared to Zoom with respect to CPU/RAM), but web is becoming "good enough".

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#248

Post by snemvalts » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 10:10 AM UTC

drcongo wrote: post #242

noen wrote: post #173

Design is communication. I loved sketch and was a devout user for years. But with Sketch, I can only communicate with a very small set of people. It required a plethora of other tools and services to share, get feedback, or insights on my work. The tool is only as effective as the reach of its creation. If technology has shown us anything in this generation, it is that reach and collaboration are immensely more valua…

This entire post can be summed up as "I haven't used Sketch for a long time and had therefore completely missed the introduction of Sketch.cloud"

Sketch Cloud seems very similar to Zeplin, which still has limits to collaboration compared to Figma.

Also, the focus still seems to be on the Mac app, everything goes through that. That's still a big hurdle when it comes to collaboration.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#249

Post by rzodkiew » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 10:16 AM UTC

marcinzm wrote: post #97

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you prefer to be locked in to a server that really serves someone else? [0] At least, with Sketch/macOS the code is executed on the device you can control (to a degree). [0]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...

I want to get things done. I value concrete benefits now versus theoretical potential benefits in the future. I'm looking for tools to help me get work done and not a religious philosophy.

That's exactly how China become an economical superpower, while at the same being environmentally irresponsible and lacking any semblance of human rights. People just wanted cheap stuff that gets the work done, rather than what's right.

By paying for any tool you are strengthening its position and philosophy, whether you care about it or not.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#250

Post by tomovo » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 10:20 AM UTC

"And thank you, Apple, for giving us a place to call home."

The underlying rendering tech is based on Apple frameworks so they are not "home". They are stuck. What a nice way of saying it.

Targetting a single platform and taking advantage of its features is totally fine for a small developer or niche app. It's a lot easier to get going, maintenance costs are lower.

However for a big app like Sketch cutting corners like that becomes a liability in the long term. Porting to another platform would mean rewriting the rendering layer or reimplementing the system frameworks to keep their designs work 1:1. It's now a huge strategic disadvantage.