Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App • Hacker News Board

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#201

Post by tonyedgecombe » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:06 AM UTC

nmfisher wrote: post #89

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #12

This is great, but I no longer feel that the macOS HIG represents usable design for anybody. Apple's native apps are confusing and inconsistent. XCode is perhaps the worst offender. (Is that because it's okay to ship sub-par experiences to developers? ) My opinion is that Google's UX is now best in class -- things like Google Docs that are just nearing perfection that everyone seems to have no trouble with. Youtube w…

I never miss an opportunity to publicly restate just how god-awful XCode is. I think it is literally the worst developer tool I have ever come across. I don’t think I have ever heard one good thing said about it. Coming mostly from a Windows desktop background, I only started developing for Apple devices late on. Holy shit, I can’t believe people have been putting themselves through that horrible experience for the b…

I'm the same and have been very disapointed with the whole Apple developer experience. Coming from C#/Visual Studio/Resharper to Xcode has been a huge step backwards. It's not just the tooling either, the documentation is nowhere near as comprehensive.

Having said that I despair at what Windows has become.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#202

Post by sgt » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:12 AM UTC

As someone who primarily works with either backend development or web frontend, it's just SO refreshing to build a native Mac app - or in fact even an iOS app as it's very similar. It's hard to explain but the development toolchain, the libraries, language (Swift!), makes me feel a lot more enthusiastic than what I normally am.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#203

Post by jmnicolas » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:15 AM UTC

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #12

This is great, but I no longer feel that the macOS HIG represents usable design for anybody. Apple's native apps are confusing and inconsistent. XCode is perhaps the worst offender. (Is that because it's okay to ship sub-par experiences to developers? ) My opinion is that Google's UX is now best in class -- things like Google Docs that are just nearing perfection that everyone seems to have no trouble with. Youtube w…

> Youtube would be another example of a highly effective UI.

Because it doesn't do much. I'm quite frustrated by the lack of features for advanced users.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#204

Post by sgt » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:18 AM UTC

martinald wrote: post #77

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, and I think this is a pretty good signal that Sketch is REALLY feeling the heat from Figma, because they aren't offering a better argument besides "we're native". The bandwagon has clearly jumped off Sketch and onto Figma, and not because it's "fashionable", but because Figma is plain awesome.

The thing IMO that really killed Sketch was not being able to share Sketch files with non-Mac users and let them open them up. They should have at least created a Windows/Linux (or web) viewer. They don't need edit functionality but nearly always someone in the approval/feedback process of a mockup will not be on Mac. It's just not realistic at larger orgs (or IMO smaller ones too) to expect everyone to be on a Mac.…

Ridiculous statement. Sketch is very much alive and it can survive on Mac-only users for a long time going forward as well, if they decide to.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#205

Post by tomduncalf » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:19 AM UTC

jmnicolas wrote: post #195

wavesplash wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall correctly, Figma's entire UI is C++ compiled down to webassembly.

If they went to the trouble to write it in C++ why use the browser instead of QT?

I’d imagine zero-install was a big thing

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#206

Post by jmnicolas » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:21 AM UTC

rado wrote: post #194

jmnicolas wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's the opposite: Windows is a functioning spyware.

Yes, functional spyware with broken UI. A dark mode explorer window is drawn in light mode for a split second and then painted black. It's ridiculous.

Sorry I can't comment on that, I'm probably the last person on earth that doesn't use dark mode.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#207

Post by tomduncalf » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:23 AM UTC

alfalfasprout wrote: post #73

nl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VS.Code users aren't exactly casual users and in the main are happy enough to use it as their main coding interface many hours per day (and yes I understand that this is HN so now there will be a bunch of people saying "I'm not happy).

Compare it to plain vim and you'll be shocked at the responsiveness difference. I even find the jetbrains IDEs kinda laggy.

I’ve always found Jetbrains stuff really laggy, even when I tried Clion on my current maxed out 16” MBP, to be honest it’s one of the things that has always put me off their software. The text entry might not be laggy but the general UI has that “laggy Java” (sorry, I know it’s not a Java fault but I just associate it with Java GUI apps!) feel. Personally I find VS Code much more responsive on the whole.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#208

Post by PostThisTooFast » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:23 AM UTC

dharma1 wrote: post #192

I find at least zooming in/out large project files to be much faster in Figma. Lack of good offline workflow sucks but the overall features and cross-compatibility means nearly everyone is moving to Figma. Sketch isn’t bad software at all, but they are really losing out to the network effects of Figma. Design software isn’t like IDEs where everyone in an organisation can use their favourite one - orgs choose design t…

Some of us don’t want a Web-based application.

Illustrator is derelict at this point, unmaintained and defect-ridden... not to mention a rental ware rip-off. So the Mac desperately needed a good vector app, but sadly Sketch suffers from some significant functional defects that make it a PITA to use.

On the other hand, so does Designer. But at least Affinity released a Windows version.

Corel Draw is better than all of those, but Windows-only.

But screw Web apps.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#209

Post by sgt » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:25 AM UTC

fareesh wrote: post #172

macOS runs only on Apple Hardware. Perhaps things are different in countries where the laws are somewhat pro-consumer, but in poorer parts of the world, Apple is allowed to get away with operating pretty much like a criminal enterprise. Here in India 100% of the Apple products that I have had the misfortune of owning, have been defective. I have purchased them from authorized resellers, and they have been original pr…

Here in South Africa I have observed quite a significant growth in Apple's market share over the last 15 years.

Unfortunately we don't deal directly with Apple, but rather franchises that make it seem like are working closely with Apple. Prices are relatively high but reasonable, and I haven't had issues with support. At my workplace: Apple devices are generally super reliable; and since we started giving Macs to all employees (hundreds) it has put an extremely low impact on internal support.

Most folks in this country still use PC but I think every kid wants an iPad or Macbook (because the other cool kids have them), so it will be interesting to see how things develop going forward.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#210

Post by PostThisTooFast » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:28 AM UTC

Justsignedup wrote: post #121

parhamn wrote: post #85

One thing I think people aren't pointing out is how much Figma seems to have done [1] to make the web platform work for them in the way Sketch is describing the Mac App. It almost seems like a technical moat of sorts. Achieving the ridiculous snappiness Figma in browsers is certainly non-trivial. [1] https://www.figma.com/blog/building-a-professional-design-to...

figma is pretty freaken amazing, and it works outside of macs. So overall there is nothing but upsides to it. Collaboration is amazing too. Just... No down sides.

Isn’t it online-only? That’s a huge downside.