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Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

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Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#141

Post by bogomipz »

ahupp wrote: post #117
okennedy wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a project like this to happen at a major US university (especially once outside funding is involved), it needs approval of the university's Institutional Review Board. Getting IRB approval entails researchers proposing a strict set of guidelines for how the data will be collected/used/stored, examining the potential for harm to participants, and convincing a room of very very risk averse individuals that the proj…

The data CA used wasn't collected by them. They got it from a research project at Cambridge University's Psychometrics Center. This is exactly the same situation.

You are a little short on facts. Dr Michal Kosinski and Dr David Stillwell of Cambridge University pioneered the use of Facebook data for psychometric research with a Facebook quiz application called the MyPersonality Quiz.

Aleksandar Kogan was a lecturer at Cambridge who then built his own app based on Stilwell's and Kosinki's app and work. Aleksandar then turned around and sold his version to SCL - the parent of Cambridge Analytica. And the reason that Cambridge Analytica wanted his app was because it worked under the social network’s pre-2014 term of service which allowed app developers to harvest data not only from the people who installed the app as well those people's friends.

Stillwell also denied Kogan's request for access to to his and Kosinskis myPersonality dataset. So No the Cambridge Analytica data did not come from Cabridge University or the Psychometrics Center.

The NYU Ad Observatory's data is completely public and the intended audience of that data is journalists and researchers doing analysis of online political advertising. This is the polar opposite of clandestinely harvesting user data in order to manipulate people.

So no it's not "exactly" the same situation but rather the exact opposite.

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#142

Post by unityByFreedom »

RSZC wrote: post #128
traek wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA data was from a quiz, developed by a researcher at Cambridge University, hosted by that researcher, which scraped FB APIs after being authorized by a user. This data is from a browser extension, developed by researchers at NYU, hosted by those researchers, which scrapes the FB site after being installed by a user. IMO the situations are pretty analogous.

The situations are in no way analogous. CA gathered data on users who did not opt in. They paid 270k users to take a quiz, and gathered information on 87MM of their Facebook friends who never consented to sharing their information.

No kidding, the difference between opt-in and secret-opt-in is obvious.

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#143

Post by propogandist »

mobileexpert wrote: post #20

Some takes From Benedict Evans that are worth considering: https://twitter.com/benedictevans/status/1320378054150148098... “Meanwhile: the NYU app has access to friend data in your feed and friend data is also in the ads it scrapes. And it replaces an actual security model with our trust that NYU are nice people and won't abuse this access. That is exactly how Cambridge Analytica happened.”

>"The supposed scandal around the data analytics supplied to campaign groups by Cambridge Analytica was manufactured by people with a political agenda.

>...UK Information Commissioner’s Office has published the findings of its three-year investigation (predating the scandal) into the matter, which concluded there was no illegal electoral interference whatsoever...In other words, the data was commercially available and concerned US voters. The only ‘special sauce’ in CA’s model was the hyperbole of its sales people..." [1]

the left has pushed a false narratives and misinformation making Cambridge Analytica, like Russia, the convenient scapegoat for all the things. The same tricks are in play now with Hunter Biden's laptop coverage, which is non-existent from MSM

[1] https://telecoms.com/506834/uk-information-commissioner-conf...

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#144

Post by anchpop »

nulbyte wrote: post #129
mFixman wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot verify that the researchers won't change the plugin to malware in the future.

You cannot verify that Facebook will not change its product to malware in the future. That it to say, at some point, you trust the software publisher in the same way you trust the service operator.

It's fine for you to trust the software publisher, that doesn't mean facebook should, especially when they're legally liable for data breaches that could result from it

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#145

Post by ahupp »

bogomipz wrote: post #141
ahupp wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data CA used wasn't collected by them. They got it from a research project at Cambridge University's Psychometrics Center. This is exactly the same situation.

You are a little short on facts. Dr Michal Kosinski and Dr David Stillwell of Cambridge University pioneered the use of Facebook data for psychometric research with a Facebook quiz application called the MyPersonality Quiz. Aleksandar Kogan was a lecturer at Cambridge who then built his own app based on Stilwell's and Kosinki's app and work. Aleksandar then turned around and sold his version to SCL - the parent of Ca…

From the Wired magazine explainer on CA:

"That data was acquired via “thisisyourdigitallife,” a third-party app created by a researcher at Cambridge University's Psychometrics Centre. Nearly 300,000 people downloaded it, thereby handing the researcher—and Cambridge Analytica—access to not just their own data, and their friends' as well."

https://www.wired.com/amp-stories/cambridge-analytica-explai...

re: "the exact opposite", you are putting a lot of weight on the intention behind this use. After the public response to CA you might appreciate why FB is going to strictly apply the rules.

But I generally agree that users running an extension in their own browser is a different situation than an app developer subject to the FB ToS and am not sure why FB would be allowed to block this.

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#146

Post by asdff »

warkdarrior wrote: post #116
cronix wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a browser plugin, not a facebook app. Why should facebook have a say on what plugins I have installed in my browser that did not come from facebook? Should they be able to have a say about ublock origin or other apps I have installed on my computer/browser?

Is ublock origin allowing you to scrape data from their platform? Then they may want to block that.

the clipboard lets me scrape data. ban that too?

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#147

Post by fredophile »

anchpop wrote: post #144
nulbyte wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot verify that Facebook will not change its product to malware in the future. That it to say, at some point, you trust the software publisher in the same way you trust the service operator.

It's fine for you to trust the software publisher, that doesn't mean facebook should, especially when they're legally liable for data breaches that could result from it

If facebook is concerned about data breaches from a browser plug-in why don't they just stop server the data to the browser? If the data is that valuable and easy to get it wouldn't be hard for someone to write malware that collects the data and phones home once in a while.

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#148

Post by fredophile »

Permit wrote: post #46
Lendal wrote: post #36

Wait so Facebook can collect data about its users but Facebook users aren't allowed to collect data about Facebook?

If I’m your friend on Facebook should you be allowed to go to my page and give all the information I’ve shared with you to another 3rd party? You trust NYU, OK fine. Can I give the same information about you to pro-Trump researchers?

Yes. By befriending someone on Facebook you gave them access to data you chose to share with your Facebook friends. You don't get to choose what they do with that data. It's just like if you tell someone something irl and they use that info in a way you don't like. Once you share info you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Unfortunately, Facebook has a history of changing data permissions that have caused info to be shared in ways users didn't intend.

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#149

Post by 3np »

cbozeman wrote: post #140
ninth_ant wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people felt Facebook should do more to proactively stop people from scraping and aggregating data from their site after the CA debacle. Which is what they are doing here, and you are labeling “absolutely preposterous”. Which way is it? Should they let people do whatever they want with their accounts as you suggest, and risk a repeat of the CA fiasco? Or try to proactively stop it like they are now?

What Cambridge Analytica fiasco? https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2020/10/06/1602008755000/ICO-s-f... The more I learn about CA and this so-called "fiasco", the more I realize other companies know far more and actively did far more than CA did. They were an easy scapegoat for Hillary Clinton losing what should have been the easiest Presidential election win in American history. The fact someone made a few hundred thousand…

"Everyone else is doing it" and "these other people are worse" is hardly a justification.

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#150

Post by fredophile »

maest wrote: post #119
jandrese wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it within the rights of a company to dictate what software I have installed on my personal machine? If Facebook wants to ban every account using the software that is within their rights, but they don't get a say in what I have installed.

Different field, but GeForce Now received a lot of cease-and-desist letters from a bunch of game publishers for allowing people to run games on their platform. For context, GFN lets you essentially rent a virtual machine in the cloud, where you can log in with your own Steam account and play the games that you've already purchased. For whatever reason, game publishers saw it appropriate to demand GFN to stop offering…

I don't remember the name of the company but there was a video streaming service that worked similarly a decade or so ago with remotely playing DVDs. They were sued out of business despite going to extreme lengths to follow copyright laws. That legal precedent was probably used here to block GFN.
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