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Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

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Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#21

Post by jdhn »

weejewel wrote: post #17

Obviously they’re feeling the heat from Figma which is browser-based. I do absolutely agree that native apps are a much better experience. I prefer Paw over postman every time for this reason too. However creating a Sketch plugin which downloads a simple JSON was an absolute nightmare.

I think that the pandemic really accelerated this. Our team uses Sketch, but we're quickly coming up on a project that'll involve a lot of collaboration, and Sketch simply won't be able to handle it. If we were in person, that would be different, but we aren't, and so I'm trying to get us Figma licenses.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#22

Post by outworlder »

yesimahuman wrote: post #13

I respect them for sticking to this, but I think it's a mistake. It's clear users in general don't care about an app being pure Mac OS controls/SDKs/etc. and their claims about it being a truly superior UX are unfounded (having used both regularly, Figma disproves that heavily). With this, Sketch isn't available on Windows nor the web (until very recently it seems?). I wouldn't die on that hill.

> It's clear users in general don't care about an app being pure Mac OS controls/SDKs/etc.

They may not put it in those terms, but they do. They can tell when an app feels 'weird' or slow (be it actually slow or just higher latency). That depends a lot on the user base for the specific app in question. The more 'casual' the user base, the less it matters.

Being native also allows you to get functionality for free that other users may depend on. In OSX it translates to things like scripts, or more often, assistive devices, like screen readers.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#23

Post by outworlder »

ywei3410 wrote: post #15
CognitiveLens wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

of course not, but the effort to bring real-time collaboration to native apps is much higher, e.g. MS Office's still-poor current experience compared with Google Docs's capabilities 5 years ago

How does the existence of Google Docs and Word say anything about how hard it is to create real-time collaboration on a web application versus a native application?

It doesn't. It's a non-sequitur.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#24

Post by untog »

outworlder wrote: post #22
yesimahuman wrote: post #13

I respect them for sticking to this, but I think it's a mistake. It's clear users in general don't care about an app being pure Mac OS controls/SDKs/etc. and their claims about it being a truly superior UX are unfounded (having used both regularly, Figma disproves that heavily). With this, Sketch isn't available on Windows nor the web (until very recently it seems?). I wouldn't die on that hill.

> It's clear users in general don't care about an app being pure Mac OS controls/SDKs/etc. They may not put it in those terms, but they do. They can tell when an app feels 'weird' or slow (be it actually slow or just higher latency). That depends a lot on the user base for the specific app in question. The more 'casual' the user base, the less it matters. Being native also allows you to get functionality for free tha…

I still don’t think the vast majority of users care. Slowness is something separate and I’d agree that a laggy interface is an awful one, especially with a visual tool like Sketch. But I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone make that complaint about Figma.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#25

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #20
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you prefer to be locked in to a server that really serves someone else? [0] At least, with Sketch/macOS the code is executed on the device you can control (to a degree). [0]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...

Sketch is not libre software, so there's not much difference as long as you can export.

There is a whole world of difference. Figma's servers can be down when you need it to work, developers might want to 'phase out' the function you need, or introduce some changes that would totally break your workflow, and you will be absolutely powerless to do anything about it but conform.

With locally running app you control when and where the app works, and you have way more options when developer introduces some changes that don't fit you.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#26

Post by beervirus »

asien wrote: post #18

Reminds me of Blackberry that decided to stick to keyboard and went bankrupt. Users don’t care about native or not , they care only about innovation.

Users may (or may not!) say that they don't care about native apps... but they absolutely notice and care about whether the app is slow and awkward. Native apps are much nicer to use than the lowest-common-denominator garbage you get otherwise.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#27

Post by LudwigNagasena »

asien wrote: post #18

Reminds me of Blackberry that decided to stick to keyboard and went bankrupt. Users don’t care about native or not , they care only about innovation.

I care about native or not. I do not want inconsistent slow UI that overheats my laptop and kills its battery as if I am streaming 4K video.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#28

Post by untog »

robertoandred wrote: post #11

Good for them staying native and not getting caught in a least-common denominator Electron hell. People uses Macs because they want to use Macs and software that takes advantage of the reliability and consistency of that ecosystem.

> People uses Macs because they want to use Macs and software that takes advantage of the reliability and consistency of that ecosystem

ehhh. I think if you did some analytics of “apps Mac users use” an absolute ton would be “a web browser and very little else”. I can think of very few truly native Mac apps I depend upon and that keep me on the platform.

What does keep me on Macs is that every now and then I need to compile an iOS app. Apple give me no choice. Aside from that I’d say a lot of developers choose Macs because they’re the least worst POSIX platform, not because Mac native apps are a shining beacon on a hill.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#29

Post by robertoandred »

untog wrote: post #28
robertoandred wrote: post #11

Good for them staying native and not getting caught in a least-common denominator Electron hell. People uses Macs because they want to use Macs and software that takes advantage of the reliability and consistency of that ecosystem.

> People uses Macs because they want to use Macs and software that takes advantage of the reliability and consistency of that ecosystem ehhh. I think if you did some analytics of “apps Mac users use” an absolute ton would be “a web browser and very little else”. I can think of very few truly native Mac apps I depend upon and that keep me on the platform. What does keep me on Macs is that every now and then I need to…

Just because you use non-native apps doesn't mean you like them. I mean, does anyone actually like Slack?

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#30

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

untog wrote: post #24
outworlder wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's clear users in general don't care about an app being pure Mac OS controls/SDKs/etc. They may not put it in those terms, but they do. They can tell when an app feels 'weird' or slow (be it actually slow or just higher latency). That depends a lot on the user base for the specific app in question. The more 'casual' the user base, the less it matters. Being native also allows you to get functionality for free tha…

I still don’t think the vast majority of users care. Slowness is something separate and I’d agree that a laggy interface is an awful one, especially with a visual tool like Sketch. But I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone make that complaint about Figma.

It’s true, the vast majority of users don’t need accessibility features, but those who do absolutely cannot compromise on them.
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