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I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

varsity.co.uk

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Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#591

Post by Shared404 »

dang wrote: post #571
Shared404 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, is there a HN equivalent to removeddit? There have been situations where I would have liked to be able to see if something had been edited, or look and confirm what the past version of a comment had been.

Not that I know of, but there are lots of third-party HN projects out there. We've sometimes thought about tracking and showing the edit history of HN comments, but I think this is one place where (let's call it) over-surveillance could lead to more harm than good. Certainly some users abuse editing, but there are also many cases where it's important to let people save face, give them an out, and so on. HN is suppose…

A perfectly reasonable take.

Many thanks, both for responding and for all the work you do for HN!

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#592

Post by nendroid »

seppin wrote: post #588
nendroid wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "We don't know what's going on" is a lie. We know. I'm not lying, but I could be mistaken. I'm not mistaken about the rape of nanking or the holocaust. There are pictures of mass slaughter, graves and even severed heads on the pikes of japanese soldiers to confirm the depravity and existence of these events. My own grandfather witnessed the events and tells me first hand accounts of the rivers of blood in nanking.…

> Show me pictures of the same slaughter that you claim the chinese are doing right now. You are the one setting the bar at "mass slaughter". Sorry, that wasn't and isn't what is being discussed. Mass interment, violence, rape, retaliation against one's family for political crimes, forced sterilization, etc. The evidence for that is legion, you have access to the same information I do. Look it up yourself (if you car…

Mass Slaughter and genocide are the same thing. You claim I'm denying genocide, so the according to you I'm actually setting the bar LOWER then mass slaughter.

These are your words:

>You are sadly in good company when it comes to the history of denying genocide.

So now you're claiming we aren't even talking about genocide? That there is no mass slaughter? Seems to me ur changing the subject.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#593

Post by seppin »

nendroid wrote: post #592
seppin wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Show me pictures of the same slaughter that you claim the chinese are doing right now. You are the one setting the bar at "mass slaughter". Sorry, that wasn't and isn't what is being discussed. Mass interment, violence, rape, retaliation against one's family for political crimes, forced sterilization, etc. The evidence for that is legion, you have access to the same information I do. Look it up yourself (if you car…

Mass Slaughter and genocide are the same thing. You claim I'm denying genocide, so the according to you I'm actually setting the bar LOWER then mass slaughter. These are your words: >You are sadly in good company when it comes to the history of denying genocide. So now you're claiming we aren't even talking about genocide? That there is no mass slaughter? Seems to me ur changing the subject.

The act of mass sterilization is genocide. Again, you are superimposing a single historical standard that simply doesn't apply here.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#594

Post by berdario »

_-david-_ wrote: post #589
berdario wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China didn't drop the nuke on harmless civilians, the US did. China didn't displace tens of millions of people in the middle east from their homes, the US did. China didn't destabilize dozen of countries (via assassinations, coups, and other unsavory ways to initiate regime change), the US did. There's one threat to world peace, and that's the US. It's ridiculous that people think that somehow China could be worse th…

Mao killed tens of millions of people which is significantly more than US nukes. China destabilized Korea, Vietnam and other countries in the area. Are seriously suggesting they didn't want regime changes in those countries? Many of those people were displaced. The US under Trump is actually starting to pull out of the Middle East. While bad things happened the US is at least stopping it. China is continuing their ag…

You should learn some history, instead of repeating US propaganda talking points, example:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_Korea

There was a unified Korea, led by Lyuh Woon-hyung.

Americans arrived afterwards, Lieutenant General John Hodge said: "one of our missions was to break down this Communist government".

If the Americans wouldn't have come, there wouldn't have been any north/south division (in fact, Kim Il-sung wouldn't probably end up leading a country). And you somehow think that it's China who destabilized it?

Similarly, it's the US that invaded Vietnam from the other side of the world. The only difference is that the country was already divided, after the Anti-French Resistance War. You think of it as "communist aggression", but the truth is that these were liberation wars from western colonization.

Similarly, the US propaganda personally blames Mao for "killing" people due to a famine. The reality is more complex, and unfortunately personal responsibility of state leaders is never recognized during these events. Similarly, Trump is "killing" hundred of thousands of people due to his mishandling of the pandemic, but we both know that he won't be held personally responsible.

I can get into more details, but you should reconsider what you choose to spread. If you're just repeating propaganda talking points, you're not going to accomplish anything good for the people in Korea, Vietnam, China or US people themselves. The only people that you're doing a favor to are the fat cats in Washington.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#595

Post by known »

loufe wrote: post #301
cmonnow wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did India get into the picture here ? The only protests going in India are those which are against government initiatives to help minorities. Interestingly, you didn't mention Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc. where minorities are actually being killed, raped or converted.

You're kidding, right? Google "India oppression" and I guarantee you'll see several links towards what's going on in India-controlled Kashmir.

Just 5% rapists are punished by Indian regime when the victim is SC/ST https://ncrb.gov.in

A separate country to 300 million SC/ST is the solution to Untouchability in South Asia https://chng.it/kJphRWWBRr #HathrasCase

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#596

Post by nendroid »

seppin wrote: post #593
nendroid wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass Slaughter and genocide are the same thing. You claim I'm denying genocide, so the according to you I'm actually setting the bar LOWER then mass slaughter. These are your words: >You are sadly in good company when it comes to the history of denying genocide. So now you're claiming we aren't even talking about genocide? That there is no mass slaughter? Seems to me ur changing the subject.

The act of mass sterilization is genocide. Again, you are superimposing a single historical standard that simply doesn't apply here.

Oh. I see. It's an english language problem. Someone doesn't know an english word and is misusing it all over the place. Look up the definition of the word genocide:

https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20...

Look, mass sterilization is bad. But genocide? Under that logic anyone who ever got an abortion is a killer. Or maybe anyone who wanted to have a baby but changed their mind...

Colloquially when people use the word genocide they use it in place of mass slaughter, that is the intuition behind the word and that's how people use it. If you use the word genocide in place of mass sterilization, you and the organization who decides to use/define the word in that way are manipulating the perspective of the situation because Everyone is well aware of the intuitive meaning of the word "genocide". When people hear "genocide" they hear "slaughter" and "killing"... mass sterilization is the last thing they think about.

Here's a thought. Rather than use the word "genocide" why don't you just say "mass sterilization." Don't throw down a word that can be mistaken for slaughter for your own manipulative gain. You could have easily, very easily clarified your intent earlier, but you didn't because you are manipulative, or you don't know common colloquial English.

I vote that you're just being manipulative. The rest of your English grammar seems fine, you just want to start something rather than be level headed.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#597

Post by franklampard »

phobosanomaly wrote: post #580
franklampard wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part is "Draconian"?

I guess that's relatively subjective, and depends on what you or I feel is draconian. I might feel something is a little over-the-top, but you might feel it's just fine. You might feel something is a little over-the-top, but I might feel it's just fine. So, I guess my only answer would be that you would have to read the articles and decide for yourself. You may have a different tolerance for the techniques described…

The second quote is literally digital contact tracing. How is that bad?

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#598

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

hcurtiss wrote: post #476
tremon wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

our practices in war have always stood out as more humane than the other side Ok, then convince your side to submit to the UN-appointed war crimes tribunal in The Hague. As long as the The Hague Invasion Act is still in force, that claim is hollow.

Just as soon as China does.

On the other hand, there are many Americans who don't wait for China to lead their way.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#599

Post by phobosanomaly »

franklampard wrote: post #597
phobosanomaly wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that's relatively subjective, and depends on what you or I feel is draconian. I might feel something is a little over-the-top, but you might feel it's just fine. You might feel something is a little over-the-top, but I might feel it's just fine. So, I guess my only answer would be that you would have to read the articles and decide for yourself. You may have a different tolerance for the techniques described…

The second quote is literally digital contact tracing. How is that bad?

You have to consider the context.

Putting Uighurs in concentration camps is literally just helping them to learn more about the Han Chinese way of life.

Xkeyscore is literally just helping an analyst access a database.

A famine is literally just a national weight-loss program.

Extraordinary Rendition was literally just an opportunity for hundreds of people to visit other interesting parts of exotic countries.

Catch my drift? Pay attention to the 'rounding up' part that follows the contact tracing.

Again, feel free to disagree. There's a wide spectrum of opinions on this stuff.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#600

Post by nendroid »

seppin wrote: post #587
nendroid wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US put japanese people in in concentration camps and most US citizens supported it. Does this put most US citizens on par with Nazis who gassed and experimented on Jewish people? No. It does not. Americans did it out of fear, not out of evil. There is a huge difference here. When you say genocide, it is equivalent to holocaust. When you say concentration camp it's equivalent to gitmo at worst or the japanese conc…

> Your spin of "it's not the same as the holocaust" (no one said it is) and "yeah but whatabout the US!" is sadly par for the course. > The US put japanese people in in concentration camps and most US citizens supported it. Amazing, your lack of self-awareness. Your deflection and whataboutism can't even let up for a second. In case you need yet another reminder, this thread is about Chinese camps. > There is a huge…

What's going on here is you're misusing the word genocide. See the comment in the other thread.

Genocide is mass killings, not mass sterilizations. If you get very technical you can call a sterilization a killing but that's just a deliberate misuse of the term.

When someone hears the word genocide they hear slaughter. They don't hear oh that population was sterilized. Let's not be stupid about this.

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