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‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#641

Post by shadowgovt »

Chris2048 wrote: post #627
rayiner wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have been teaching people about unconscious bias for years without these theatrics.

But what have we been teaching them? "there is no good evidence that people are unaware of their biases. While people do often express surprise at the score they get on the Implicit Association Test, that often reflects the labels that are used to express the degree of bias rather than the presence of some difference in attitudes toward different groups" -- https://www.psychologytoday.com/ie/blog/ulterior-motives/201…

The IAT is only one measure. https://cos.gatech.edu/facultyres/Diversity_Studies/Bertrand...

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#642

Post by shadowgovt »

Chris2048 wrote: post #640
shadowgovt wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humiliation is in the eye of the beholder. I don't see them as humiliated. They don't appear to think they are humiliated. Perhaps it's just not humiliating.

> They don't appear to think they are humiliated How do you know? It doesn't sound like the kind of session where honest (dissenting) exchange is encouraged.

We don't have a lot of signal on what kind of session it is. It's not the conclusion I'd jump to from one Free Beacon screenshot.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#643

Post by Chris2048 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #642
Chris2048 wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't appear to think they are humiliated How do you know? It doesn't sound like the kind of session where honest (dissenting) exchange is encouraged.

We don't have a lot of signal on what kind of session it is. It's not the conclusion I'd jump to from one Free Beacon screenshot.

Do you think multiple people would naturally volunteer to say those things in a regular session?

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#644

Post by SkyBelow »

pornel wrote: post #79
cabraca wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know those diversity sessions... They claim everyone who is white or passing as white is racist. I had to "confess" that i'm racist and promise to do better or it would have consequences for my career. Sidenote: I volunteer at a refugee center and took in a syrian family. Literally hitler, i know. A colleague got fired because he wouldn't confess and left the session. So even if that Dean said he is a racist, he's…

I've been in such trainings, and I've seen lots of people get offended at hearing "you benefit from racism" as if it meant "you're racist". Racists in positions of power may tilt the playing field in your favor whether you've asked for it or not. And it may not even be you personally, but people in your neighborhood, your social groups in general.

>I've been in such trainings, and I've seen lots of people get offended at hearing "you benefit from racism" as if it meant "you're racist".

The core of the issue is that this is a stereotype being applied on a person because of their race. At no point is someone going through that person's own individual history and determining specific points where they have benefited. Instead, there is just the stereotype (which might even be true on average) that is being applied to each individual person because of their (perceived) race.

What was the word for stereotyping someone based on their race?

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#646

Post by hitekker »

UncleMeat wrote: post #633
hitekker wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Separately from the admissions testing debate: what is your view on the "gatekeepers of white supremacy" and the assorted "I am a racist" declarations?

I don't believe that you believe that this is actually separate. Why else would my opinion matter here? I know very little about HR departments and bias training. I do know a lot of academics who study race in fields like history and sociology and I do know that people scream at some of them and call them anti-white even though their scholarship is very rigorous. So I would expect there to be a range of quality among…

Well one matter is about inclusivity and the other is about innocent people being coerced into declaring themselves racist.

Separating the two helps the audience determine if you’re speaking in good faith, or if you’re trying to rationalize and cover up an injustice.

Screeds generally indicate the latter.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#647

Post by Chris2048 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #641
Chris2048 wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what have we been teaching them? "there is no good evidence that people are unaware of their biases. While people do often express surprise at the score they get on the Implicit Association Test, that often reflects the labels that are used to express the degree of bias rather than the presence of some difference in attitudes toward different groups" -- https://www.psychologytoday.com/ie/blog/ulterior-motives/201…

The IAT is only one measure. https://cos.gatech.edu/facultyres/Diversity_Studies/Bertrand...

I mention the IAT specifically b/c it can be used in "teaching people about unconscious bias" as a coercive tool to prove to people that they are racist i.e in the context of OP: "to help people who don't believe they are racists".

I have no problem with teaching accurate information wrt bias; but on the other hand, that metric doesn't impel people to label themselves racist, which seems to be a goal.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#648

Post by barry-cotter »

UncleMeat wrote: post #634
barry-cotter wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read what I wrote you will not find the word extremist anywhere. I didn’t say you you intend to sabotage quality education. I said you were against excellence. Turning a gifted school into a normal one will in practice be the end of academic acceleration. There’s no reason to believe getting rid of an option for the gifted will benefit anyone. If you have any examples to the contrary please share. Academic acc…

> If you read what I wrote you will not find the word extremist anywhere. I missed that you were a different poster than the one I responded to. > I didn’t say you you intend to sabotage quality education. I said you were against excellence. Turning a gifted school into a normal one will in practice be the end of academic acceleration. But it isn't turning a gifted school into a normal one. The proposal still require…

I do not support the entrance standards you describe but if the school is as AP test centric as you describe not that much will be lost. I oppose any standards that for a gifted and talented school that allow anything but test scores on blindly marked tests to count because I trust that they will be used to keep the wrong sort out, whether that’s currently Asians or Jews.

IB is at best very little better than AP. If you’re not teaching actual college level material like Bard College at Simon’s Rock[1] a limited amount will be lost by allowing administrators more leeway to discriminate against Asians.

I apologize for my overwrought language. I pattern matched your opposition to the current regime to the Ed school orthodoxy or the San Franciscan attempt to actually end Lowell.

[1] https://simons-rock.edu/academics/index.php

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#649

Post by Tainnor »

globular-toast wrote: post #366
shadowgovt wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gay rights is hardly a settled issue. If it were, the GOP wouldn't have adopted reversal of the Obergefell v. Hodges precedent as a party platform plank in 2016. https://news.yahoo.com/richard-grenell-addresses-rnc-gop-220...

The US isn't the world.

Sadly, it's not solved in the rest of the world either.

LGBT rights in Poland and Russia are in dire straits. In Chechnya, I think they still deport gay people. In far too many countries, homosexuality is still illegal. Even in the Western world, growing up gay or trans often is associated with a measurably higher level of stress.

Of course, it got better, but it's still not over.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#650

Post by kofejnik »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #631
kofejnik wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone has biases and prejudices. Everyone. Yes, that includes you. Everyone is a sinner (not the Pope, tho). Yes, that includes you! Go confess and do your penance

Congratulations for completely missing the point of my comment. Please go back and read it in good faith. It's _not_ a value judgement. People aren't evil for having biases. They're not sinners because they do, and they don't have to do penance.

congratulations on missing the point of the whole thread.

Also, for having biases, people are actually getting called evil (racist, nazi, bigot, etc) every day, and are expected to apologize/be fired/read more sacred texts/participate in group exorcisms/etc

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