It was Epik’s responsibility to do an “orderly process” when they started acting as a money transmitter, it’s not PayPal’s job to compensate for Epik’s failure to comply with the law. The consequence for failing to comply with legal requirements are often sudden and disrupting; Epik really should have planned for this. Continuing to service Epik despite a failure to follow AML laws actually exposes PayPal to risk, wh…
You are just arguing that Paypal did what was necessary given the current law/SEC regulations, which I didn't disagree with. I was trying to lift the scope of the discussion to a larger arena in which the role of the SEC certainly could be discussed, for example. Basically asking the question "Is there a better way to manage compliance?"
There is usually going to be a better way to manage compliance. By its very nature, the effort is friction inducing.
What I think is the most interesting question is “what are the unstructured/incentives that caused us to end up where we are today”
That's enough of what, Dan? This comment was substantive, responsive to the parent comment, and cordial; it didn't provoke a flame war nor could it be expected to, it didn't include any quips or sick burns . If you don't like moderating after all this time, and I wouldn't blame you, at least understand I can't help other people spamming the flag button because they disagree with people's good-faith interpretation of…
Using HN for political and ideological battle, and especially race wars. That's not what HN is for. HN is for intellectual curiosity, and nobody who repeatedly gets into arguments about these things is using the site that way—rather, it's all about defeating enemies, which is not the intended spirit.
"Facts" is a red herring. There are infinitely many facts and they don't select themselves, nor do they interpret themselves or present themselves. Humans do all of that and we are driven by motives, not facts.
That's enough of what, Dan? This comment was substantive, responsive to the parent comment, and cordial; it didn't provoke a flame war nor could it be expected to, it didn't include any quips or sick burns . If you don't like moderating after all this time, and I wouldn't blame you, at least understand I can't help other people spamming the flag button because they disagree with people's good-faith interpretation of…
Using HN for political and ideological battle, and especially race wars. That's not what HN is for. HN is for intellectual curiosity, and nobody who repeatedly gets into arguments about these things is using the site that way—rather, it's all about defeating enemies, which is not the intended spirit. "Facts" is a red herring. There are infinitely many facts and they don't select themselves, nor do they interpret them…
> Using HN for political and ideological battle, and especially race wars
Of course, smearing the Proud Boys as white supremacists: not "race war" nor a "political and ideological battle"; disagreeing with the arguments for that: egregious and banworthy ideological battle.
But as things are going you need to have a very limited ideologically worldview to not get expelled. And I am not taking about silly things like _Hitler was nice_. Do you want recent examples? If you mention the following (you dont even have to support it or believe it) and many people complain there is a big chance you will be banned because of hate-speech: 1. There may be genetic differences in cognitive abilities…
It's true, the list is growing every day. I remember not long ago how the term "sexual preference" became considered offensive overnight, purely for political reasons. It was interesting to see even the dictionary immediately change their definition in response to some twitter drama. Despite the fact that the offense is completely baseless, since people cannot freely change their preferences.
Something happened in the last 5 years or so. I am an old school leftist, by no means a Stalinist or so, but very much in favor of the former colonies rights, against imperialism, unilateral use of force, excessive power of multinationals, militarism, that sort of stuff. Let's say I am a crazy commie in the mold of Chomsky or Howard Zinn. Well, in the last 5 years, that left "poooft", evaporated, disappeared totally and now the only "opposition"to the usual suspects is a motley group formed by ex-tumblerinas, social media companies C-executives and their employees, mainstream democrats and celebrities,twitter comedians, and the problems are not more: "Why Grenada was invaded", "What is the future of Gaza" or even "Why are unions disappearing in America?", not more "Iran-Contra" or "Somalia intevention" Now the problems are "Is JK Rowling a TERF" "Should Colin Kapernick(sp) have an extra year of contract" "Is AOC college degree more prestigious than Trump's" When the top-20 Fortune companies are on your side I think it is time to reassess your priorities as a leftist movement, but no, that is not happening.
In the coming years, we may see the rise of separate economies based on political divide. I think this is where we are heading, and this will counterpart the world splitting the internet into nationally divided fragments.
> [They] did the same for Antifa though, so at least they are somewhat consistent. I don't think this is a coherent statement. Antifa isn't an organization. The Proud Boys definitely is. If you're not familiar with the Proud Boys, this is a good introductory video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZMWQDvZQZs
> Antifa isn't an organization Maybe not with centralized governance like Proud Boys, but PayPal definitely cut off payment processing for "Antifa Sacramento" and "Atlanta Antifascists" last year, I remember reading about it...
I know it's difficult to comprehend but: Antifa is not an organization while "Antifa Sacramento" might be an organization.
If liberal ideals of fairness, equality and so on become considered "hate speech" I believe that the society suffering through that will have much bigger problems to tackle than companies' censorship. Both sides are not the same.
You are more part of the problem than you could ever imagine.
Explain how, this is not reddit, either you contribute to the discussion or it's better not to post anything.
Providing services to groups like this can be a PR disaster far more revenue-impacting than having to mop a floor.
Got any proof of actual loss of business because Mastercard/Visa/Paypal took a credit card transaction from a "hate group"? no one is going to stop using those platforms...
Each of those companies spends tens if not hundreds of millions on advertising a year. It’s quite clear they care about their reputations.
The leader isn't even white, nor are most of their members. He was on a youtube podcast recently, with Tim Pool I think, something definitely doesn't make sense between what the media is constantly parroting about them and what they actually are.
Don't have to be white to be a racist!
Definitely not. Being a white supremacist though - which is what is mentioned here - that should take some serious mental gymnastics I think.
You are more part of the problem than you could ever imagine.
Explain how, this is not reddit, either you contribute to the discussion or it's better not to post anything.
Because you dont care about the substance of the argument or its logical conclusions, you only care about the political points in the current environment.
If tomorrow Facebook, Twitter and Google decide to ban all criticism, of Zuckeberg,Dorsey or Brin calling it "hate speech", the problem will be EXACTLY the same: corporations censoring things, nothing else. I do not like when they do it to Alex Jones not because I like him but because I dont like the precedent to be set for other more valuable sources in the future. But the mechanism is exactly the same, if you dont defend "the untouchables" now, dont expect people to defend "your team" in the future.