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A tale from the trenches fixing an NES

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Re: A tale from the trenches fixing an NES

#41

Post by munk-a »

ineedasername wrote: post #39

Sure, we all want the right to repair, but don't we realize that easily repairable devices could add as much as 1 to 2 mm of thickness to our phones? Sure, my Galaxy Note 2 had a replaceable battery and a shattered screen the local repair shop could fix for $50, but I paid for that with more than 0.5mm in additional device thickness than my current phone.

It's amusing - I like light laptops but at this point I'd prefer an artificially deep case just so they could get some key-travel back in. For portability of a laptop the width really isn't a consideration... For phones and tablets ditto.

Re: A tale from the trenches fixing an NES

#42

Post by jiggunjer »

freeone3000 wrote: post #40
jojobas wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't preclude repair but definitely make it harder to make modular, user serviceable devices. Software repair is a different story of course, but it's another double-edged sword- you wouldn't like your phone's memory to be fully accessible with just a USB cable. I can't imagine a mechanism that would only allow USB tampering only if the phone is malfunctioning.

Your phone's memory effectively is fully accessible with just a USB cable. I am unaware of any android phone which actually verifies the signature on its bootloader - run `adb fastboot flash` and you can load arbitrary ROMs onto arbitrary chips. The contents of the ROMs is what's secret.

You'll need more than a USB cable if you've bricked it, even fastboot won't be accessible.

Re: A tale from the trenches fixing an NES

#43

Post by kelnos »

derefr wrote: post #24
mauvehaus wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would shellac work or traditional lacquer[0] work? They both cure by drying, not polymerizing, and can be removed decades later with the original solvent: alcohol in the case of shellac, or lacquer thinner in the case of lacquer. I haven't had any experience with lacquer because traditional lacquers almost have to be sprayed, which I am not equipped to do. I have plenty of experience with shellac because you can brus…

Mind you, in this case, we're talking about something that 1. doesn't have to dry clear (and in fact can dry entirely opaque), and where 2. it'd be much better if you could remove it by peeling it up , rather than by using a solvent, because many of the components have plastic housings that don't take kindly to, well, any strong solvent really. The goal isn't an art piece — it's to create a barrier to moisture/corros…

How hard would the peeling be? I'd worry about ripping off components or even board traces if I had to peel something like that off it.

Re: A tale from the trenches fixing an NES

#44

Post by the137 »

ar_lan wrote: post #14

Serious grammar question... Is the "an" in the title proper because NES, pronounced, sounds like /ɛn/, even though it's actually a consonant?

'an' is used when the sound of the next letter is the sound of a vowel, so in the case of eN-E-S, 'an' is correct.

In english multiple vowels in a row cause you to take a pause, which is why the -n is added

Worth noting, the other posters are correct in saying that 'a snezz' or 'a ness' is also correct.

Re: A tale from the trenches fixing an NES

#45

Post by com2kid »

ineedasername wrote: post #39

Sure, we all want the right to repair, but don't we realize that easily repairable devices could add as much as 1 to 2 mm of thickness to our phones? Sure, my Galaxy Note 2 had a replaceable battery and a shattered screen the local repair shop could fix for $50, but I paid for that with more than 0.5mm in additional device thickness than my current phone.

Want things to change?

Stop having reviewers point out that extra couple mm as being a "glaring design flaw" or comment on "how extra chunky" the phone is.

FWIW rugged, durable, battery replaceable devices have repeatedly failed on the market. Notably, Motorola tried, and failed. Everyone bought Samsungs.

Re: A tale from the trenches fixing an NES

#47

Post by CogitoCogito »

ineedasername wrote: post #39

Sure, we all want the right to repair, but don't we realize that easily repairable devices could add as much as 1 to 2 mm of thickness to our phones? Sure, my Galaxy Note 2 had a replaceable battery and a shattered screen the local repair shop could fix for $50, but I paid for that with more than 0.5mm in additional device thickness than my current phone.

"Right to repair" isn't really a universally fixed idea in its details, but one interpretation could be that a company needs to provide access to spare parts and documents to support repair by unaffiliated 3rd parties. That would not necessarily mean that the company would need to make their devices easily repairable (by for example making batteries replaceable), but instead require the companies to support unaffiliated 3rd parties in their repairing endeavors similarly to how they would do it internally. In a scheme like this, there would be nothing standing in the way of continuing to make thin devices.

That said, I do personally wish there were some sort of "minimum repairability" that would potentially put limits on how thin something can be if that made repair much more difficult, but that's a bit of a side-issue to "right to repair" for me.

Re: A tale from the trenches fixing an NES

#48

Post by pettycashstash2 »

mindslight wrote: post #28
jojobas wrote: post #21

While I'm all for right to repair, repairability is a tradeoff. Everybody seems to want a razor thin phone/laptop/whatever, which makes easy repairs impossible, and treats them as expendable anyway. If it's out of warranty it's obsolete. The amount of labor to diagnose and replace a chip on a tightly packed motherboard sometimes exceeds the price to replace an entire motherboard.

This is such a red herring. I've got a Galaxy S4 here that is bricked with a bootloop, due a software error on the emmc chip. I know this is the case, because someone has done the painstaking work of investigating the bug on the S3, and hacking up a reverse engineered fix. I'm guessing it would take a week to retrace their steps on my model. Meanwhile if these devices were well documented by the manufacturers, it wou…

On the topic of bricking, I had my $250 amazon kindle display the dreaded battery with exclamation mark a day after warranty expired. Coincidence? I contacted amazon and was kindly informed that there are no authrized repair facilities and amazon does not fix it. Was offered $5 to return it and 15% discount. Had to do a bit of research online but it turns out one can take it apart. I disconnected battery and reconnected it and it started charging again. I’m not a conspiracy theorist but this felt like amazon would software brick the device so I would buy new one due to timing of warranty. Disconnecting battery literally reset device. Anyone experience this?

Re: A tale from the trenches fixing an NES

#49

Post by Nextgrid »

jojobas wrote: post #36
mindslight wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The narrative that "razor thin" devices preclude repair. If I had the manufacturer's documentation, the problem with my S4 could likely be fixed with just a USB cable. Its physical form has nothing to do with its general lack of repairability.

They don't preclude repair but definitely make it harder to make modular, user serviceable devices. Software repair is a different story of course, but it's another double-edged sword- you wouldn't like your phone's memory to be fully accessible with just a USB cable. I can't imagine a mechanism that would only allow USB tampering only if the phone is malfunctioning.

> you wouldn't like your phone's memory to be fully accessible with just a USB cable

Use cryptographic authentication then, with a password/key provided to you when you buy the phone?

Re: A tale from the trenches fixing an NES

#50

Post by Timpy »

On the subject of right to repair: Back when slide out keyboards were still available I bought I a new Verizon phone and paid for the best insurance plan I could get. After a short amount of time my brand new phone just stopped working, the insurance said it was a factory issue, I sent it in for repairs. They couldn't fix it so they sent back a certified refurbished phone. It wasn't the same quality, the new keyboard was clicky and the refurbished felt spongy. I called to complain but I ended up in a support loop getting passed around in a circle of people who had no authority to fix my situation. I paid for a new phone with full insurance like a good little consumer and got a used phone.

Ever since then I buy budget phones; phone insurance is a scam, phones are intentionally difficult to repair, and I don't want to spend $1k on something fragile that I keep in my pocket that has a high likelihood of being dropped on accident and the only recourse being whatever policy Apple has to benefit itself. I wish we lived in a world where consumer electronics were owned by the user. A 30 year old NES can hold value, I have doubts about what 30 year old smart phones will look like.

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