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PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

mashable.com

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Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#111

Post by throw_m239339 »

renewiltord wrote: post #102
djsumdog wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada doesn't really have freedom of speech. Mike Ward faces a $80k fine for making a joke[0]. [0]: https://podtail.com/pt-BR/podcast/wrongspeak/-10-that-s-not-...

And neither does America. This man was arrested for calling his mayor corrupt: https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/internet-speech/new-ha... To be honest, I know where most people stand on free speech when I see them saying that we shouldn't allow anyone to call for anyone else to be fired. I think freedom of speech is so important that I will defend to the death your right to ask for me to be fired.

> The police ultimately dropped the charges — after the ACLU of New Hampshire spoke out against Frese’s prosecution.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/internet-speech/new-ha...

nobody was prosecuted in that story. The police did abuse their power.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#112

Post by umvi »

some_furry wrote: post #74
ashtonkem wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet this entire thing is going to turn into an ugly left vs. right culture war, even though this is probably more about KYC regulations.

Fortunately, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24894248

Fought by a tiny minority, yes, but that tiny minority can stir up enormous amounts of large scale contention and discord.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#113

Post by mmastrac »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #87
mmastrac wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So free speech _does_ have limits?

Speech is not terrorism, nor physical violence. It is hyperbole to argue otherwise. Yes, many forms of speech are distasteful, or downright grotesque (hate speech, for example), but it is absolutely not the same as an act of terrorism. [The idea that the government may restrict] speech expressing ideas that offend … strikes at the heart of the First Amendment. Speech that demeans on the basis of race, ethnicity, gend…

Quoting a conservative justice on free speech is not a powerful argument.

What you are arguing here is that free speech is unlimited because the things you don't like aren't actually speech.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#114

Post by akerro »

kenforthewin wrote: post #35

If some of y'all put the time you spent into defending white supremacists and hate platforms in the name of free speech or independent thought instead into achieving a more just, anti-racist society we'd all be so much better off.

> in the name of free speech

Hereby I revoke your freedom of speech.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#115

Post by breakfastduck »

kenforthewin wrote: post #35

If some of y'all put the time you spent into defending white supremacists and hate platforms in the name of free speech or independent thought instead into achieving a more just, anti-racist society we'd all be so much better off.

Free speech is more important than any specific progressive movement, because every progressive movement requires free speech unimpeded by the state.

That's why.

You don't get the benefits of free speech for free, you have to tolerate those you don't agree with too.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#116

Post by themgt »

This may or may not have been a political move, but the theme of certain partisans celebrating when their perceived enemies are deplatformed is disturbing, especially given the parallel phenomenon of politically inconvenient stories being termed "Russian disinformation" that's our societal imperative to suppress.

It shouldn't require too much of your imagination to wonder if one day you will be on the wrong end of this corporate shunning. Jacobin for example is complaining Facebook is blocking their pro-Marxist posts on Bolivia. If your position is "the values enforced by these trillion dollar multinational companies will surely never come into conflict with my own!" you're a fool or a stooge.

https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1320078487970041856

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#117

Post by xwdv »

kenforthewin wrote: post #35

If some of y'all put the time you spent into defending white supremacists and hate platforms in the name of free speech or independent thought instead into achieving a more just, anti-racist society we'd all be so much better off.

Unfortunately “anti-racism” has been weaponized as a shortcut for silencing anyone who may at one point have said something that could be interpreted as racist or even not anti-racist enough. No thanks.

Rather be labeled as a racist and keep my free speech than silenced by some mob authority.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#118

Post by deburr »

breakfastduck wrote: post #106
freeone3000 wrote: post #31

They chose to not participate with PayPal, and invent their own currency, and in exchange, PayPal stopped dealing with them. Their questions were fairly basic KYC form-letter questions anyone selling a financial service should be able to answer - if they couldn't, they might be in trouble with the SEC, not just PayPal.

Genuine question here - what's the difference between them selling this 'currency' and buying in game currency on a video game? Or would those kind of things also have to comply with these kind of regulations?

Video game currency is restricted to that video game, and most if not all video games have strict regulations against trading their currency for services outside of the game.

The currency they're selling purports to be a general-use currency for real life sales.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#119

Post by wayoutthere »

patrickaljord wrote: post #52
kenforthewin wrote: post #35

If some of y'all put the time you spent into defending white supremacists and hate platforms in the name of free speech or independent thought instead into achieving a more just, anti-racist society we'd all be so much better off.

That's because many of us consider freedom of speech to be more important than anti-racism for the simple reason that without freedom of speech, you lose everything, including anti-racism and all the rest.

“Freedom of speech” in any meaningful sense has only ever existed for wealthy people (who are historically white male landowners) or those of other classes whose speech is deemed “appropriate” by such gatekeepers.

Just look at what happens when employees try to unionize: their employers go to great lengths to silence them, and have spent considerable political capital removing regulations preventing them from doing so. If you have money and power, it’s always been easy to silence speech you don’t like.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#120

Post by gridlockd »

some_furry wrote: post #74
ashtonkem wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet this entire thing is going to turn into an ugly left vs. right culture war, even though this is probably more about KYC regulations.

Fortunately, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24894248

That "tiny minority" still has an outsized impact. The pareto principle applies to pretty much everything.
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