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PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

mashable.com

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Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#61

Post by toomuchtodo »

FemmeAndroid wrote: post #53
toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is speech, so says the supreme court (Citizens United). Impeding the transfer of fiat (infra which should be a utility) is a violation of constitutional rights (arguably) if you're not breaking the law. Even if I disagree with the speech (I do! Vehemently!), rights must be inalienable. Maybe this should be patched in Section 230 legislation versus 18 USC § 1960, would have to read more statute to provide a prop…

In no way is "Impeding the transfer of fiat" or "Impeding speech" by a business "a violation of constitutional rights." Like, just to put this in a less contentious context - think about an employer. An employer is allowed to stop an employee from speaking about things, or can punish or fire them for their speech. There isn't some inalienable right to speech. There is a constitutional right to the government not bein…

I appreciate it! I frequently interface with policymakers on technology issues (both to advocate for policy and as a neutral advisor), and I always want to approach those conversations as educated as possible (otherwise, I do a disservice to both those relying on my expertise, and those they represent).

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#62

Post by ceejayoz »

bioinformatics wrote: post #58
ceejayoz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, if you get a reputation for entering businesses and shitting on the floor, you'll find yourself banned from all of them eventually. The same is true for online businesses.

So, if you go to some business and shit on the floor, maybe we can ban you from the business, the roads that reach said business, ban you from public transportation, ban you for owning a car, bicycle, motorcycle and maybe ban you from owning property. That will show you!

It is disingenuous to conflate "banned from private companies" with "banned from public utilities". They're vastly different on a legal level.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#63

Post by mmastrac »

AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #51
kenforthewin wrote: post #35

If some of y'all put the time you spent into defending white supremacists and hate platforms in the name of free speech or independent thought instead into achieving a more just, anti-racist society we'd all be so much better off.

Our society is the most just society the Earth has ever known. What exactly do you expect the folks of HN to do differently?

Sorry, that's a very weak statement and easily refuted. By what measure? The US ranks below Canada on the HFI. On many quality of life lists, the US is far below nordic countries.

You may want to examine your circumstances and see if you'd still feel the same way if you were one or more of black, female, gay, or a persecuted minority (I'm assuming you are none of these, but feel free to correct me).

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#64

Post by jacquesm »

microcolonel wrote: post #60
kenforthewin wrote: post #35

If some of y'all put the time you spent into defending white supremacists and hate platforms in the name of free speech or independent thought instead into achieving a more just, anti-racist society we'd all be so much better off.

The Proud Boys are not white supremacists. “Anti-racist” is brand of explicit racial discrimination dressed up as civil rights activism. And no, "we" would not "all be so much better off" for having licked Kendi's boot instead of upholding the sanctity of basic civil rights that enable the very activism (good or bad) that you're talking about.

> The Proud Boys are not white supremacists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#65

Post by microcolonel »

MattGaiser wrote: post #30
ravenstine wrote: post #7

In the coming years, we may see the rise of separate economies based on political divide. I think this is where we are heading, and this will counterpart the world splitting the internet into nationally divided fragments.

Will they be significant economies though? Gab and Epik are mostly about culture wars and conspiracy theories. How many people are actively involved in those?

At the rate America's white leftists are alienating people, it may turn out to be the majority, once we cross a threshold.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#66

Post by mmastrac »

patrickaljord wrote: post #52
kenforthewin wrote: post #35

If some of y'all put the time you spent into defending white supremacists and hate platforms in the name of free speech or independent thought instead into achieving a more just, anti-racist society we'd all be so much better off.

That's because many of us consider freedom of speech to be more important than anti-racism for the simple reason that without freedom of speech, you lose everything, including anti-racism and all the rest.

That's not true at all. Canada has both strong anti-hate-speech laws and a far lesser (though still existant) problem with racism and racial justice overall than the US. Freedom of speech always has limits.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#67

Post by ashtonkem »

freeone3000 wrote: post #31

They chose to not participate with PayPal, and invent their own currency, and in exchange, PayPal stopped dealing with them. Their questions were fairly basic KYC form-letter questions anyone selling a financial service should be able to answer - if they couldn't, they might be in trouble with the SEC, not just PayPal.

And yet this entire thing is going to turn into an ugly left vs. right culture war, even though this is probably more about KYC regulations.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#68

Post by gedy »

piva00 wrote: post #55
gedy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that now, but if the political winds change in future and progressive ideals and orgs are then labeled "hate speech", promoting violence, I suspect there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

If liberal ideals of fairness, equality and so on become considered "hate speech" I believe that the society suffering through that will have much bigger problems to tackle than companies' censorship. Both sides are not the same.

I'm speaking about many of the activist orgs and tactics, BLM, etc

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#69

Post by some_furry »

umvi wrote: post #12

Seems like PayPal had already cut off funding for Proud Boys over a year ago? The did the same for Antifa though, so at least they are somewhat consistent. This particular article seems less about Proud Boys and more about Epik using an "alternative currency" called "Masterbucks"... > The right wing has long accused tech companies of anti-conservative bias. Experts say the claims are unfounded. It's an interesting si…

> [They] did the same for Antifa though, so at least they are somewhat consistent.

I don't think this is a coherent statement.

Antifa isn't an organization. The Proud Boys definitely is.

If you're not familiar with the Proud Boys, this is a good introductory video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZMWQDvZQZs

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