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I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

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Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#391
My current desktop is getting on about 7 years old. I used to build new computers every year or two, so the idea of getting almost a decade out of the same box is wild and represents how much PC tech has plateaued.

However, I have a nice laptop from work and I really like my work setup, where I just connect a couple ports and instantly have a couple more big monitors, a good keyboard and mouse and other stuff.

So I've really been considering replacing my desktop with a decent laptop at home. I've also seen some benchmarks that are putting fairly commodity systems within spitting distance of what my old workhorse can do, meaning if I invested in a decent laptop I could probably keep about the level of performance I have today, but gain portability.

Then in the last few months we got the new Nvidia 3080 line (with AMD's RDNA 2 coming soon), the AMD 5000 series processors, new classes of SSDs like the 970 Evo Plus which have performance that used to be what we saw with DRAM.

All of these combined in a new system are going to be an entirely new class of desktop performance that my old system won't even come close to touching and portable machines won't touch either.

So I'm thinking of going with a new desktop sometime next year once inventory and prices stabilize, and if I need it a rock bottom budget laptop for traveling. Target price <$3k all-in.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#392
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for OP but I know some people use optical disks for cold storage backup, as they're reasonably cost effective there.

I can second that, I use M-Discs for long term backups. They're supposed to last 1000 years and you can get 100GB ones.

Thanks that’s very interesting. I’d never heard of these. They seem expensive but you get the millennium aspect (not something a spinning magnetic disk can claim).

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#393

I prefer a desktop because: 1. I like big, big monitors. 2. I prefer a full size keyboard. 3. I prefer a separate mouse. 4. I prefer big freaking disk drives installed. 5. I put the desktop under my desk, and with a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, there is much less of a snarl on my desk. 6. The desktop has an optical drive I still use. 7. The desktop has lots of USB ports and they're all in use. 8. I can repla…

That's why I use a desktop-replacement laptop. Lots of USB ports (and display ports), large built-in monitor but I use a docking station for a larger one, usually bring a mouse and the keyboard is full-sized (includes numpad) and the dock also has a keyboard, has a spot for an optical drive (I just refreshed, so my new one doesn't have one installed, but that's an easy buy as there's still a slot), it has 2 hard drives (and you can get multi-terabyte hard drives, now).

Upgrading stuff and costs are both really significant for personal use (which is why I am typing this from my home desktop), but if money is no object, I just get a desktop-replacement laptop.

I hate the whole "let's just make laptops like tablets" thing, where "like tablets" means "no ports."

I need ports for all kinds of stuff, including driving robotics and interfacing equipment. Which is also why having a laptop is nicer than a desktop. It's really great to have a built-in UPS and be able to move my office easily.

EDIT: Just checked, and it's easy to upgrade RAM or replace the battery, and I have room for a 2.5" hard drive and actually 2 NVMe SSDs (they make 8TB ones) plus an optional SIM card and a PIV card and SD card and the built-in camera and microphone array are really nice to have nowadays. But I do love desktops. You wouldn't think 10 USB ports is that important, but nowadays everything uses USB, so it's nice to have for pure convenience.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll go look again, but last I did I didn't find much [affordable]. I do have an (no longer in production?) APC Smart UPS which can be extended with an external battery, alas vastly overpriced. Of note, if various online resources are to be believed, you can't just hack and extend the battery capacity for longer run-times as they likely aren't rated for the corresponding higher thermal load.

> alas vastly overpriced. they're not cheap, but i've bought cheaper and that stuff costs even more in the end. power electronics that are safe and reliable costs. > you can't just hack and extend the battery capacity for longer run-times as they likely aren't rated for the corresponding higher thermal load. thermal load... of batteries? i'd expect you'd confuse the microcontroller in the UPS. more batteries will req…

[Following your advise I did find some Tripp-Lite that are almost reasonable]

Thermals referred to the power electronics which do get hot. Yes certainly better to get equipment designed for it rather than risk burning down the house.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. The NVMe that gives you 2GB/s write may throttle to only 500 MB/s after a few seconds of writes, but-- How often is that a problem, really?

Two words: Heat Sinks A well proven way to move heat out of a silicon package to prolong its ability to perform at its highest potential. And in a desktop, you've got room for 'em.

What I’m told you need heatsink for PCIe SerDes and maybe CPU on it but NAND likes warmer temperature

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#396
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that actually true anymore? I mean, hardware wise they are not much faster, but cooling is a different story.

This will be true for a long time - the design constraints are so totally different it would be foolish to use the same design in desktop and laptop systems. The most limiting thing is TDP, which in the highest performance laptop processors is still capped at 45W, whereas a maxed out desktop processor can draw 100W or more. See these tables for i9, for example, compare Coffee-Lake-S (Desktop) with Coffee-Lake-H (Lapt…

> The most limiting thing is TDP, which in the highest performance laptop processors is still capped at 45W, whereas a maxed out desktop processor can draw 100W or more.

Maybe a small desktop. My desktop processor is 180W TDP (Threadripper 1950x), while some others are 250W TDP. You can also get a dual-socket workstation, for 2x CPUs (both pulling 200W each).

Thermals and power are significantly higher on desktops, it ain't even funny. Laptops win in power-efficiency, but absolute performance is always going to be a Desktop.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#397

From the article: "What worries me as much as the end of general-purpose computing for the masses is that so few seem to understand that it is ending." Correction: Has Ended. The vast majority of people using computers has shifted to phones and tablets. I have a friend who's a millenial who barely knows how to use his desktop PC (It's a Mac) but is fluent on his iPad/iPhone. Most people are not content creators, they…

> Most people are not content creators, they are consumers.

And using locked-down devices will condemn them to that for the term of their natural lives.

But actually I disagree. At different stages in their lives, people do different things. Make music. take photos, and wonder why they suck. Make family trees. Various hobbies, that require working with multiple bits of sotware on on multiple projects.

Take electronics. It's a hobby. It's nuts to use apps that each store their data in their own sandbox. One app to draw a schematic diagram, another app to plan the hardware layout, another app to record calibrations and test results, another for photos--and other apps to record the project goals and plans, and the lessons learned.

If I couldn't use a general purpose computer and store all of these files (and others, such as manufacturers' datasheets for critical components) in a single folder for each project (not part in one app, and another bit in aonther app, and so on), I'd be using paper, a drawing board and a filing cabinet.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#398

> I know that new "open" laptops are still available, but most of them--the System76's, the Purisms, etc.--are overpriced in my opinion This quote suggest to me the author is an integral part of the problem. Companies are ALWAYS trying to increase their profitability. If they can lock down the computer, they can drop the price while _increasing_ CLTV. That’s why System76 is more expensive. They’re NOT overpriced. The…

I don't see it. I recently bought a System76 laptop, in honest competition with a comparable (and comparably priced) machine from a huge corporation. I ended up going for S76 based on better battery life and better design, plus the benefits of open firmware and excellent hardware integration with Linux. No regrets. I also got my employer to buy me a S76 desktop at work. At home, though, I do run a slightly modified o…

> I don't see it. I recently bought a System76 laptop, in honest competition with a comparable (and comparably priced) machine from a huge corporation. I ended up going for S76 based on better battery life and better design, plus the benefits of open firmware and excellent hardware integration with Linux. No regrets. I also got my employer to buy me a S76 desktop at work.

I really want to want a System76 laptop, but I just can't bring myself to get one because of the 16:9 screens [1].

[1] 16:9 screens are another one of the computing marketplace's shitty regressions over the last decade. General purpose computers should have 16:10 or 3:2 screens, but unfortunately the number of models that have one is very small.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#399
post #391

My current desktop is getting on about 7 years old. I used to build new computers every year or two, so the idea of getting almost a decade out of the same box is wild and represents how much PC tech has plateaued. However, I have a nice laptop from work and I really like my work setup, where I just connect a couple ports and instantly have a couple more big monitors, a good keyboard and mouse and other stuff. So I'v…

I've gone from desktops to laptops and back again. The reasons are somewhat technical but mostly center around psychology.

From a technical perspective not many laptops come close to my desktop's performance and if they did they'd cost way more.

But the psychological benefit of having a desktop to do my work on is when I get home I don't continue working. I lock my ability to do most of my job (DevOps) to my desktop at my private office away from the home. That means when I get home I can do basic tasks on my 2020 MBP but for security reasons there's a lot I can't do.

Maybe this is something to consider when making your choice? Let me know how you get on.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#400

I prefer a desktop because: 1. I like big, big monitors. 2. I prefer a full size keyboard. 3. I prefer a separate mouse. 4. I prefer big freaking disk drives installed. 5. I put the desktop under my desk, and with a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, there is much less of a snarl on my desk. 6. The desktop has an optical drive I still use. 7. The desktop has lots of USB ports and they're all in use. 8. I can repla…

I will never do a wireless keyboard. The idea of trusting a company to properly encrypt my wireless keystrokes is laughable. My security is far more important than cable management thanks.
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