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LiveCode is a modern day HyperCard (2019)

andregarzia.com

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Re: LiveCode is a modern day HyperCard (2019)

#61

In the spirit of HN contrarian comments, I'd say the closest thing spiritually to a modern-day HyperCard is PySimpleGUI: https://github.com/PySimpleGUI Previously the closest thing to HyperCard was WinForms, which PSG borrows heavily from. PSG is probably the fastest way for anyone moderately familar with python to throw together an ugly-but-servicable GUI program and I reach for it when I'm in a hurry. The two trick…

You should really check out Rebol's ability to build GUIs and so forth. Generally not as full featured as WinForms, but infinitely easier to use.

After using REBOL, I found the "standard" GUI functionality in Python for creating interfaces so unhappy I used pyPEG to write a DSL parser that would turn REBOL-style interface descriptions into introspective wxPython GUI's.

I say REBOL-style, since it was superficially similar to REBOL (or REBOL/VID, if you prefer), the full power of the Visual Interface Dialect requires an actual REBOL interpreter...! Instead, I used mostly static layouts and a simple escapement to call Python handlers as necessary.

Re: LiveCode is a modern day HyperCard (2019)

#62
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting it. I don't think I've looked at this set of tools since it was Metacard. I love these threads every time they come up. Mostly because I loved HyperCard. Without fail, everything suggested as a modern HyperCard replacement really nails at least one element of its spirit and really misses something else. I think this is one of the closer ones overall. Its adherence to the stack model is much closer…

thanks for the kind words As for distribution, you can still distribute stacks and people who have livecode can run it without fuss. That still works. One unique feature from livecode is its ability to cross-compile a standalone and I decided to demo that in the post because I felt many people would like to distribute applications, that dosn't mean it is the only way to do it. A technique that many of us use is havin…

Well, now you just need to get a "livecode player" shipped in something widely distributed by default. :-D

The ability to cross compile is VERY cool, and I don't mean to belittle it or suggest that passing stack files around is better. As someone who builds software for distribution, the cross compilation is much better, and getting it done with compatibility that wide is technically really impressive.

But putting myself back in the headspace that had me using HyperCard, sharing my stuff without any build step at all was a big deal.

I like your loader stack technique. It sounds like just the sort of thing we'd have tried in HC if network access had been a common, reliable thing.

Re: LiveCode is a modern day HyperCard (2019)

#63

In the spirit of HN contrarian comments, I'd say the closest thing spiritually to a modern-day HyperCard is PySimpleGUI: https://github.com/PySimpleGUI Previously the closest thing to HyperCard was WinForms, which PSG borrows heavily from. PSG is probably the fastest way for anyone moderately familar with python to throw together an ugly-but-servicable GUI program and I reach for it when I'm in a hurry. The two trick…

Kv language provides a concise declarative way to specify GUI https://kivy.org/doc/stable/guide/lang.html

Re: LiveCode is a modern day HyperCard (2019)

#64
post #31
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking the same thing. Man I miss VB6. For rapidly prototyping an idea, I have yet to find anything that was as good as VB6. Drag a button, write code. Want to change things about the button? Use properties, that live update the GUI without recompiling. It was so simple that a reasonably intelligent person could grasp it in an afternoon, but in the hands of a capable developer could do some very impressive th…

I agree regarding VB6. What are your thoughts about winforms? Seems pretty similar, no?

To be completely honest I haven't been involved in the Windows ecosystem in probably 15 years so I am not really sure. I switched over to using Macs in 2005 or so. I just Googled it and poked around and, yeah, at a high level it looks a lot like the old VB form builder.

The thing is, the form builder was just part of what made the VB experience so great. It was how everything tied together conceptually into a complete environment that, crucially, was very easy to understand and very approachable. The form builder was easy to grasp, language was very simple and straightforward, and the documentation was just astounding (to this day I have yet to find anyone who has as good documentation as Microsoft did in the 90s.) You could crank out a simple app in a matter of hours with it.

In the late 90s I got swept up in the dot-com boom and started doing web development. That's been my primary bread and butter since, although these days I have moved into a more management-focused role so most of the development I do is on my own time to keep my skills sharp. I have occasionally written things in Java (using Netbeans, whose form builder was very similar to VB) and Objective-C (again, Interface Builder reminded me a lot of VB).

I've been doing a lot of Swift recently for macOS development because it's such a fun language, but I haven't jumped over to using SwiftUI. It's just not ready for prime time yet, IMHO, especially for macOS apps. And I really just prefer building GUIs using a GUI builder like Storyboards or even old fashioned NIBs/XIBs, since most of the macOS apps I write I am the sole developer on, the version control issues with GUI definition files aren't a big issue for me.

Though I will say that I think SwiftUI has potential - especially with the live preview as you're building. It just doesn't work very well right now for complex macOS apps.

Re: LiveCode is a modern day HyperCard (2019)

#66

I'll take any opportunity to ask HN what sort of "Hypercard" like options are out there to get kids into programming. I still have many memories of creating my own "Choose Your Adventure" type game and having the other kids in my class be amazed at what I was able to create. It really stuck with me.

This may sound crazy, but my 7 year old daughter and I had the most fun with TIC-80 (https://tic80.com) and Lua. She is very comfortable with the notion of writing a program that's later run, as well as the concept of variables. The only thing I wish TIC-80 had is an easy way to prompt user to input a string. This feature would be a game-changer for TIC-80 as a programming education platform.

Re: LiveCode is a modern day HyperCard (2019)

#67
post #65
post #54

For "Modern day HyperCard" I would expect some innovation that translates it to the modern world. Not literally HyperCard :)

What sort of innovations are you thinking of?

It makes sense to ask, I would do the same, but in this case I definitely don't have any innovations on hand.

Re: LiveCode is a modern day HyperCard (2019)

#68
post #54

For "Modern day HyperCard" I would expect some innovation that translates it to the modern world. Not literally HyperCard :)

There's no pleasing some people.

Never mind that Livecode IDE runs on Linux, Mac and Windows it also can produce compiled apps that run on those 3 platforms and iOS and Androd and even as a webapp like PHP. And it can even compile to HTML5 (although that's more limited).

It works with version control and unicode, it has regex, cryptography, sockets, JSON, XML, OAuth2, SVG etc. It has database libraries for interacting with sqlite, postgresql, mysql, etc. It can incorporate a web browser and control that using Javascript and callbacks. It can be extended to integrate with Java, Objective-C, etc. You can create your own GUI widgets. And it's free.

But that's still too much like Hypercard, which only ran on an ancient Mac and nothing else. Hypercard could do about 10% of what Livecode can do. And Hypercard has been dead since before you touched an IDE.

Re: LiveCode is a modern day HyperCard (2019)

#69

I'll take any opportunity to ask HN what sort of "Hypercard" like options are out there to get kids into programming. I still have many memories of creating my own "Choose Your Adventure" type game and having the other kids in my class be amazed at what I was able to create. It really stuck with me.

PICO-8 [1], a "fantasy video game console" might be good. It simulates something kinda like a C64, with Lua, tile and sound editors, etc. It's not as simple as Hypercard, but it comes with a number of examples and it's relatively easy to get something interesting moving around on the screen.

1. https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php

It's inspired a number of similar projects such as TIC-8 and Pixel Vision 8.

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