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YouTube-dl is now part of GitHub/dmca.git

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Re: YouTube-dl is now part of GitHub/dmca.git

#111
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what should we ask for? There is stuff to complain about with the DMCA, but the core process is reasonable. Someone claims copyright infringement by a user, and the website takes the content down. The user claims no copyright infringement, the website restores the content. The website is immune from liability, the alleged copyright owner can settle things in court with the user if they want to.

For one I’d like there to be some punishment for repeated abuse of DMCA. GitHub policies state that repeat offenders can get their accounts suspended/deleted. Why can’t repeat offenders (RIAA) get banned from the system at least? Some increasing back off after a rejected claim was posted? Anything that would make it un-economical to just spam the system with notices wherever you like it because there is no downside t…

I wonder if anyone has written something to find and independently assess the validity of these bulk false DMCA take downs.

Honestly, I'm guessing a ambitious law firm could actually make a good class action suit against these offenders.

Seems like broad, real damages could be justifiably demonstrated.

Re: YouTube-dl is now part of GitHub/dmca.git

#112

I think the long term solution for this problem is the developers of open source software like the bit torrent client, youtube-dl and other similar software will have to host their code outside of the reach of DMCA regualation. That will usually mean something like Github like site hosted in Russia, China or some other bloc where DMCA does not apply. Right now, lots of users in the US scientific community use Scihub…

Nah, that won't work. China is a member of WTO and follows the TRIPS agreement. Therefore, I guess the RIAA will just go court in China, and they can still take down any repository which they'd like to. Lots of companies from the western country have won intellectual lawsuits in China.

Sites like sci-hub works in a way tricky manner. You can't expect an ordinary company which is in another country to do so, because they are still inside the framework of the international capitalism.

Re: YouTube-dl is now part of GitHub/dmca.git

#113

Heh, I didn't expect to get much attention for this. I thought it would be funny to push a merge commit between the 2 repo's latest commits. As a result, the git history is accessible from the dmca repo if you know the commit hashes. Since I didn't rebase, all the commit hashes were preserved with signatures. Another fun discovery is that deleting my fork of github/dmca didn't affect the PR like I thought it would, s…

This is hilarious, well done. I realized something while :+1:-ing your PR: I was thinking about how digg deleted my account over posting the AACS key, I really couldn't care less if Microsoft deleted my account over it. Very interesting considering that even just 2 years ago I never would have done this for fear of my account being deleted. All of my work and personal projects are moved to gitlab (the CI/Kubernetes/e…

why do you think this is MSFT's fault? Didn't github pre-acquisition always comply with DMCA takedown requests too?

Also, why shouldn't they? This really doesn't seem like the hill they should choose to die on, if they decide to go against the government they would have far more interesting things to fight for.

And this is one of the less defensible ones too, given they explicitly gave examples of infringing copyrights in the code.

EDIT: ah, but this isn't a proper takedown notice, as per https://twitter.com/xor/status/1319755776043384838

Re: YouTube-dl is now part of GitHub/dmca.git

#115

I think the long term solution for this problem is the developers of open source software like the bit torrent client, youtube-dl and other similar software will have to host their code outside of the reach of DMCA regualation. That will usually mean something like Github like site hosted in Russia, China or some other bloc where DMCA does not apply. Right now, lots of users in the US scientific community use Scihub…

Relying on other countries can't ever be a long term solution. That pirate bay and scihub are still around, that their authors are walking around freely, is a miracle that should not be taken for granted. We need to work on fixing these problems in our own countries. We need to talk about the freedoms we care about, put a good brand to those freedoms and win popular attention and enshrine those freedoms into law. And…

> That pirate bay and scihub are still around, that their authors are walking around freely

Let's not equate these sites. scihub gives people what they are likely already paid for. Academic publishing business is a fraud. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PriwCi6SzLo (recent video on the topic that I liked)

Re: YouTube-dl is now part of GitHub/dmca.git

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hilarious, well done. I realized something while :+1:-ing your PR: I was thinking about how digg deleted my account over posting the AACS key, I really couldn't care less if Microsoft deleted my account over it. Very interesting considering that even just 2 years ago I never would have done this for fear of my account being deleted. All of my work and personal projects are moved to gitlab (the CI/Kubernetes/e…

> I know a sample size of 1 has an effectively 100% error rate, but, I think Microsoft is losing mindshare with GitHub. Stuff like this doesn't help. I could see a small company like GitLab needing to toe the DMCA line, but, Microsoft has the deep pockets and could have built some major community will here by handling this better. Unfortunate that they didn't. If MS didn't comply with the DMCA takedown notice, then t…

What was submitted was not a DMCA notice, Microsoft was not legally obligated to comply with it.

From what I know, DMCA notice requires the identification of claimed copyrighted content and this document does no such thing.

Re: YouTube-dl is now part of GitHub/dmca.git

#117
post #65
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is losing the good will they've worked so hard to rebuild. Microsoft employees, managers, Satya: do you see what you're doing? I love the direction you've taken over the past five years, but bowing to the RIAA and attempting to disrupt an innocuous tool are horrible decisions. It's a chilling note, and everyone involved in tech can hear it. Are you telling us Github is not a safe place to develop software a…

IANAL, but as far as I recall, a site receiving a DMCA notice must immediately remove the stated content. The person who put the content up may then file a counter-notice, which, if uncontested may then be followed by reinstating the content. If contested, the process moves into the courtroom.

False in this case.

The 17 USC (2)(c)(1)(C) safe-harbour protections apply only to hosting of infringing works, and neither youtube-dl nor its test suites infringe on any RIAA or member copyrights as averred in RIAA's notice.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512

The RIAA's letter does not claim infringement within the text of youtube-dl source or test suites, though it tries hard to appear so, but rather anti-circumvention of a "copyright protection mechanism", under §1201. That is also part of the DMCA, but falls outside the safe-harbour.

At best, youtube-dl's test suite may be infringing works when run, in which case infringement would accrue to the operator, presumably a tester or Github's CI/CD process. Even that argument is specious.

Given output is discarded, no permanent copy is retained, and the action is for research and development, and numerous Fair Use affirmative defence claims exist under §107, notably (1) and (4), test suite execution falls outside exclusive rights. Any one fair-use test is sufficient, or none at all. Test suite execution could be argued non-infinging under numerous theories, including reverse engineering, research, interoperability, all under §1201, or under general limitations on exclusive rights in §112, §117, or elsewhere.

This is where ... things get interesting....

- The "copyright protection scheme" in question, if it even is one, was written by and is provided by Google/Youtube, not the RIAA.

- It is not even clear to me the RIAA has standing to sue under §1203: "Any person injured by a violation of section 1201 or 1202 may bring a civil action in an appropriate United States district court for such violation." RIAA are not injured due to utilisation of a non-member's mechanism.

- Does not pass the 17 USC 1201 (a)(2)(B) test: "has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title".

- Yes, Microsoft / Github may have liability under 17 USC 1201 (a)(2), "offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic" the code, subject to the same test above. However there is no safe-harbour provision for such violations.

- Microsoft (owner of Github) is listed on the RIAA's members page. Neither Google LLC, its Youtube subsidiary, nor parent Alphabet Inc. are. The RIAA are threatening a member for a §1201 violation against a nonmember. That's ... weird. https://www.riaa.com/about-riaa/riaa-members/

- There's an exception in §1201(f)(2) "a person may develop and employ technological means to circumvent a technological measure, or to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure, in order to enable the identification and analysis under paragraph (1), or for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs".

- Youtube-dl is executing code as a World Wide Web user agent, provided by Google/YouTube, and meant to be accessed and run by user agents in order to access YouTube content. That is, youtube-dl's operation is entirely within YouTube's technical design and intent.

- Any potential copyright infringement which might occur through use of youtube-dl is at the volition of users, not the software's authors, actions would properly be directed at such users for individual acts of infringement, and much of this is subject to the same and other defences listed above.

The remaining question is whether or not this claim should be contested. I argue that it should, on numerous grounds;

1. Though the claim is made under US law, similar anti-circ provisions exist in international law, which is highly standardised in large part thanks to the RIAA, MPAA (video), SIIA (software), WIPO, and other copyright monopoly cartels' special-interest deep-pockets lobbying. Offshore legal safe havens are limited and vulnerable. Defence within DMCA /anti-circ / WIPO / Berne regions is unfortunately necessary. Simply hosting the repository outside US jurisdiction is not sufficient, though a valid immediate response.

2. Such claims are specious at best, carry heavy chilling efects, may be entirely fraudulent, and should carry considerable risk. A countersuit agaist RIAA may help make this cartel, or others, think twice about repeating such attempts, as well as establish precedent agaist future such attemps.

3. The future of software, to which Microsoft claims to have harnessed its own wagon, is open, collaborative, Free Software. As such, the software and information services industry's interests diverge from those of regressive copyright maximalists.

TL;DR: This is not a 17 USC 512 infringement/safe-harbour, RIAA's standing is highly questionable, it is threatening a member for an averred nonmember's §1201 injury, any actual works duplication is not performed by youtube-dl's developers directly, nor is the work itself or its test suite an infringement of RIAA / members copyrights, and numerous defences exist for routine use or incidental transmission or copies made by others. Further, youtube-dl, digital and information liberties groups, Microsoft, and Google/Youtube should fight the RIAA's claim.

Re: YouTube-dl is now part of GitHub/dmca.git

#118
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might not be able to explain well, but from what I understand about how github works, when you fork someone else's repo, github only stores 1 tree but you have your own set of tags / branches. This led to an issue that was probably fixed where if you set a repo to private, anyone who had a clone could guess commit hashes from their fork's remote. Another interesting thing about git is that you can have 2 root commi…

This seems like a security issue, no?

It is a security issue if the presence of a commit or tree in a repo is supposed to be enough to get GitHub to nuke the repo, as this then allows malicious users to convince GitHub to nuke any repo they like, but GitHub can instead deal with this more sensibly and not make it a security issue.

Re: YouTube-dl is now part of GitHub/dmca.git

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt they'd fear the PR backlash. They didn't fear it before SOPA, and even when SOPA was defeated, it was largely because the backlash was driven by efforts by sites like Wikipedia, Facebook, and Google advertising counter-SOPA messaging, and that drives far more traffic than sites like GitHub.

Taking down GitHub would instantly make millions of developers at thousands of companies unable to do their work.

Any diligent company that relies on GitHub so heavily will have a service-level agreement in their contract, which will include compensation for a major outage.

Otherwise they're getting GitHub's best effort, which is exactly what they've paid for.

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