I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps • Hacker News Board

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#421

Post by Diesel555 » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:37 PM UTC

throw_m239339 wrote: post #413

bhaskara2 wrote: post #202

CCP must not go unpunished. The world needs to stand up to their lone wolf style. If we do not stand up against CCP now it will only embolden the evil. Vote with your wallets. Avoid buying China made products. Pressure/ Make laws for retailers to enforce Country of Origin information for each and every product especially Amazon. Amazon is flooded with cheap Chinese products almost certainly made in inhumane condition…

> CCP must not go unpunished. The CCP already went unpunished with the Tibetans. Very few people in the west cared and it was before China became member of the WTO. The current administration tried to impose tariffs on China which were deemed illegal by the WTO. Maybe the west should have cared BEFORE welcoming China in the WTO.

Yes, but arguing we didn’t already do something so we shouldn’t start now isn’t right.

I know that isn’t your point, and agreed on the WTO. As a mass we will never sacrifice a 10% cheaper product to stop inhumanities. We need to elect officials who will handle that via economics. I’ve always been a fan of taxing Chinese imports to offset this factor.

If only we can just keep partisan politics out of the discussions as the taxes on Chinese products were immediately bashed based on the person who implemented it. We need to look at the decision itself to evaluate it, not the party that made the decision. We can disagree with most of a party’s decisions but if you find you hate 100% of them you are likely applying a bias to something that may be good.

Check out Crouching Tiger. It’s a great modern book that includes how we are buying/trading our way into losing the next war.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#422

Post by chadcmulligan » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #362

tim333 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few individuals buying less stuff isn't going to have much effect. We need something more like the west putting 50% tariffs on Chinese products so all the manufacturing starts moving to other countries. That would probably get their attention.

The real issue is that we don't care to hurt ourselves enough in punishing the Chinese. If they were some minor country that supplied all the world's bananas someone could potentially put together something like that, and we'd all live without bananas for a while. But China makes just about everything, and not just cheap and simple stuff anymore. In game theory (and experiments with real people) sometimes it makes se…

Australia is - its stood up to china - in a fairly minor way - demanding an investigation into the origins of covid 19. It's now involved in a tit for tat thats probably going to cost a lot.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#423

Post by eitland » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:39 PM UTC

tracer4201 wrote: post #389

abc-xyz wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s an incomplete list of things Trump has done to stand up to China. I challenge everyone to name a single person (or country, or continent) who’s done more than him. - He refers to the Wuhan Virus as the China/Chinese Virus (CCP is trying very hard from distancing themselves from responsibility; they won’t even let us into Wuhan to investigate). - He started a trade war with China, which has forced companies to…

Serious question - which of these advance American national interests or prevent human rights abuses? The first item in your list is President Trump calling the virus the Chinese virus. Aside from maybe bringing his supporters as a rallying cry, what does that actually achieve? It feels more like hollow political rhetoric and not something that delivers any kind of results. What do the arms sales achieve? Is it merel…

> Serious question - which of these [...] prevent human rights abuses?

Replace prevent with reduce and I'd say almost all of them.

Say what you want about Trump but he has started to made it clear that there will be consequences.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#424

Post by FpUser » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:39 PM UTC

csomar wrote: post #369

crocal wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay your taxes so that your military can keep an eye on the assholes who do this, and so that UN may offer some form of asylum to their victims. Vote for politicians that oppose this shit publicly. Explain to your kids why this is wrong.

I think this comment is under-rated. The US has been doing real work when it comes to China like this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-philippines... where most of the world is just watching. The US certainly doesn't have a stellar Human Rights record in wars or other; but it's mostly because of incompetence and not as an agenda to keep one race only.

>"...but it's mostly because of incompetence and not as an agenda to keep one race only..."

I am curious what would happen should you face those countless victims of "incompetence" and explain it to them.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#425

Post by tracer4201 » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:39 PM UTC

abc-xyz wrote: post #408

tracer4201 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question - which of these advance American national interests or prevent human rights abuses? The first item in your list is President Trump calling the virus the Chinese virus. Aside from maybe bringing his supporters as a rallying cry, what does that actually achieve? It feels more like hollow political rhetoric and not something that delivers any kind of results. What do the arms sales achieve? Is it merel…

Calling it the China/Chinese Virus helps continuously remind the world that China are 100% responsible for the pandemic. The only reason I’m voting for Trump is due to him being able/willing to stand up to China. It would be great if more politicians realized that China is an issue that will win/lose votes so I didn’t have to vote against the majority of my beliefs. As for arming Taiwan (I assume Hong Kong was a typo…

What does calling the virus the Chinese virus achieve? Does it solve the current crisis we are in? I’d like to go back to my original question - what is the substance or end result?

And in your mind, what does it mean that Trump is willing to “stand up” to China? What is the net effect or outcome?

Last I checked, there are over 200,000 Americans dead from the virus. The American President initially denied it was a real issue, going as far as to say it was a Democratic hoax. Then he started having daily conferences, somewhat acknowledging their seriousness of the situation, but insisting it would all just disappear.

You can vote however you like, and no one here is asking you to tell us who you voted for. And I’m not asking you to justify your vote, although you indicated your candidate and your reasons why.

I’d prefer to go back to a policy discussion.

Arming Taiwan will help an American defense company increase its revenue for sure. But if we want to discuss impact on China, in a serious military conflict, Hong Kong has essentially zero chance of holding off a Chinese invasion.

The larger point I’m trying to make is that it’s not clear to me what actual impact the current Presidents policies have had. He certainly has great sound bytes to portray himself as being tough on China, but from the list of items you provided, I would love to know what fundamentally has changed.

The American President is fairly well known for exaggeration and hyperbole - he describes himself as the “best” or most informed on any particular topic. In his own words, his opponent is weak because his opponent will listen to scientists. I hope you’re able to disambiguate that tough words, whether it’s calling Mexicans rapists and criminals or saying the virus is the Chinese virus, don’t actually accomplish anything substantial other than maybe make you “feel good” or provide you confirmation on your beliefs on a particular topic.

Separate note: I do find it ironic that as an American voter, you believe the same President, who has financial interests and even personal bank accounts in China, is “tough” on China in terms of any meaningful policy.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#426

Post by tremon » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

hcurtiss wrote: post #353

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pay your taxes so that your military can keep an eye on the jackwads who do this My taxes have frequently paid for US Gov led torture. If we ever hold China accountable in a meaningful way, it won't be due to authentic moral outrage.

Certainly nothing like this, and our practices in war have always stood out as more humane than the other side. People sometimes point to Afghanistan, but I don’t remember out guys beheading anyone.

our practices in war have always stood out as more humane than the other side

Ok, then convince your side to submit to the UN-appointed war crimes tribunal in The Hague. As long as the The Hague Invasion Act is still in force, that claim is hollow.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#427

Post by ng12 » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:42 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #362

tim333 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few individuals buying less stuff isn't going to have much effect. We need something more like the west putting 50% tariffs on Chinese products so all the manufacturing starts moving to other countries. That would probably get their attention.

The real issue is that we don't care to hurt ourselves enough in punishing the Chinese. If they were some minor country that supplied all the world's bananas someone could potentially put together something like that, and we'd all live without bananas for a while. But China makes just about everything, and not just cheap and simple stuff anymore. In game theory (and experiments with real people) sometimes it makes se…

Even on HN all anyone could talk about was how Trump's Trade War was hurting the economy. I thought the trade war was poorly executed but at the same time at least he was doing _something_.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#428

Post by tracer4201 » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:44 PM UTC

eitland wrote: post #423

tracer4201 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question - which of these advance American national interests or prevent human rights abuses? The first item in your list is President Trump calling the virus the Chinese virus. Aside from maybe bringing his supporters as a rallying cry, what does that actually achieve? It feels more like hollow political rhetoric and not something that delivers any kind of results. What do the arms sales achieve? Is it merel…

> Serious question - which of these [...] prevent human rights abuses? Replace prevent with reduce and I'd say almost all of them. Say what you want about Trump but he has started to made it clear that there will be consequences.

What are the consequences, and what specifically has it reduced?

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#429

Post by yorwba » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:48 PM UTC

fishywang wrote: post #203

BeetleB wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_East_Turkestan_Republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_East_Turkestan_Republic Of course, it's Wikipedia, so you'll have to dig through its references.

Thanks for the links. For the First, even Wikipedia warned that it lacks citations and verification, so I don't think it should be considered as a "creditable source". Also it's only a tiny portion of Xinjiang. For the Second, even if we consider it 100% true, it doesn't really support the original claim from that interview article, in several ways: 1. It's a small portion of Xinjiang, and the claim _implies_ that th…

> One thing I don't understand is why do those condemn China's treatment of Uyghurs have to add the (likely dubious) claim of China invaded Xinjiang in 1949.

The best-organized Uyghur groups outside China are various separatist organizations, so they have a natural advantage at getting journalists together with eyewitnesses while putting their own spin on things.

So it's not like they're adding a dubious claim to their legitimate claim, rather they've been making the same dubious claims all along and it's just now that a legitimate claim has been added that people are finally listening to them.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#430

Post by ng12 » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:51 PM UTC

wonnage wrote: post #406

lisnake wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you are implying. Are you saying that we cannot believe this man's testimony?

I believe Uighurs have been rounded up and forced to watch indoctrination videos, in a gross violation of their human rights. Forced sterilization seems plausible too given the history of the one child policy. I don't believe this stuff about torture cages. The Chinese government is trying to subdue the Uighurs by torturing them for 20 days and then... just letting them go?

> His wife had sent endless letters to the UN and Foreign Ministry of Kazakhstan, where he was previously naturalised. She had also sat for an interview with Free Asia Radio, all of which pressured two Kazakh Ambassadors to finally visit him and soon after the Chinese authorities to free him.