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YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

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Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#421
Youtube-dl (2020) would be an easier case to present to the public than DeCSS (2000).

Everyone knows what Youtube is. It's easy to understand the utility of being able to download a video from Youtube to save it on your computer. If they didn't already know this was possible to do, they'd immediately want to start using it as soon as you explained it was possible.

DeCSS was exploiting a weak encryption scheme's weak key distribution scheme. Where the only final explanation for why this matters is that it can be used to rip off DVDs.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#422

It is a bit of a tough question. How would I feel about someone borrowing a book from a library and then photocopying it to keep a local copy? If the intent was to re-distribute then I would not feel comfortable allowing it. However, if the proposed remedy was to ban personal ownership of photocopiers I would not even consider that a valid approach. But would I expect I could keep my own photocopied version instead o…

While photocopying books for distribution is against the law, I disagree that it should be against the law. If 3 people all borrow the same book sequentially then it's fine. If one person borrow it, photocopies it twice to share with two others, then they've broken the law. And yet nobody in either case has made more or less money. I am in favor of copyright law that prevents profiting from another person's work, but…

> Once your idea is public knowledge, there is no reason for it not to spread freely given how easy it is to transmit information now.

This treads into territory I feel is grey. I imagine the complex case where I sell some creative content (e.g. a pdf, audio file or video). You pay me for access to this content and download it. I grant that you ought to be able to retain a local copy of that content for so long as you wish.

Then you create freecontent.com and publish it. You don't put ads on it, you don't sell it - you simply make it available for free at some URL without my express permission. In a world where that is legal, I feel it would materially harm my ability to earn from content I create. I have a hard time supporting that even though I am sympathetic to the idea that information ought to spread freely.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#423
post #86

I'm very scared by this. youtube-dl needs somewhat frequent updates as Google moves the youtube codebase around. I'm worried that the RIAA's next move, now that it's starting to get inconvenient to get youtube-dl, will be to make Youtube change in some way to make existing copies of youtube-dl no longer work. youtube-dl has been my primary way of getting videos since I learned about it. If the RIAA manages to kill it…

I think you have it backwards. Google is very much on the same side as RIAA in this case. Youtube-dl is simply too convenient for avoiding the ads.

Does your ad blocker not already remove the ads?

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#424
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that copyrighted works were included in the readme shows it was intended for that use, and the RIAA complaint will likely stand up to any legal scrutiny. Just because it can be used for legit purposes too won't matter in the slightest. I mean, Napster could have been used for legal means as well, and it got destroyed in court. The only chance tools like this have legally is when infringement is an "unintende…

Can't it be trivially reinstated then by removing any references to copyrighted content? youtube-dl has plenty of legitimate uses beyond just copyright infringement.

They can't fully un-ring that bell. The RIAA will always be able to argue infringement was the purpose since they used copyrighted examples.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#425

Your weekly reminder that 1. You should not have your development process on a centralized platform, at least not if you're doing anything that smells of copyright issues 2. If you do host on a centralized platform, have regular, decentralized backups of code and issue tracking. 3. Also, avoid US-centric hosting for this kind of thing. But really, refer to 1.

> at least not if you're doing anything that smells of copyright issues

Or lets people communicate. Or broadcasts news. Or can filter messages or news. Or directly applies encryption to anything. Or is related to accounting. Or can be indirectly linked to health services. Or, well, you get the idea.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#426
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of amazing that computing in general, and the internet in particular, is as open and free as it is (contrast with the closed end-to-end "appliance" model of gaming consoles, or to some extent iOS). Cory Doctorow has been ringing alarm bells for over a decade about both technical and legal efforts to end general purpose computation itself, or at least to make it more the exception than the norm: https://www.…

> end general purpose computation itself, or at least to make it more the exception than the norm I'd argue, cautiously, that general computation is already an exception. That's why I prefer Linux to Windows. On Linux I can issue a command from a general command interface (the CLI) to just play a video. If I only want audio, it's an option away. I can script things together. Most of my tools are interoperable. That's…

> On Linux I can issue a command from a general command interface (the CLI) to just play a video. If I only want audio, it's an option away. I can script things together...Windows, the popular workstation, is not that.

I use the same video player on Windows that you use on Linux, mpv. And I have a ton of scripts I use to navigate my video library. Windows doesn't put any burden on apps to not be interoperable. Plenty of apps interoperate just fine.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#427
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DMCA is a bad law, but you'd have a harder time arguing a general purpose web browser meets any of the following conditions: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201 (2)No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that— (A)is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a techn…

Can you argue that youtube-dl meets any of those conditions? You can argue that youtube-dl facilitates making copies of copyrighted works; that's easy. But the items A, B, and C that you quote all require circumventing a technological measure that controls access to a protected work. And youtube videos, in the general case, have completely uncontrolled access. You can't circumvent measures that don't exist.

Unfortunately the law defines access control VERY broadly. If they take any steps at all to make it difficult to download the source video then that is a technological measure to control access. There is no requirement that it be effective.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#428
Disclaimer: IANAL.

The legal reasoning here is shaky. Notice that they cite a German court and assert that the law there is materially the same as that in the US.

I did some research on this specific issue at one point, and I'm skeptical that Youtube's controls qualify under the law in question.

RIAA cites two sections of the law: >the provision or trafficking of the source code violates 17 USC §§1201(a)(2) and 1201(b)(1).

It almost certainly doesn't violate 1201(a)(2), which is for access controls. This is intended to be used by someone who already has access to Youtube, so no access controls are bypassed.

R. CHRISTOPHER GOODWIN & ASSOCIATES, INC. v. SEARCH, INC., Dist. Court, ED Louisiana 2019:

>While the user id/password combination required for access was surely a "technological measure" that controlled access to the works at issue, Pevny did not circumvent that measure. She validly accessed the system using her id/password combination while she was still an employee with Plaintiff. Even if the use that she made of that access is not something that Plaintiff would have authorized her to do, i.e., copy the materials at issue, it remains that Pevny's alleged abuse of her logon privileges does not rise to the level of descrambling, decrypting, or otherwise to avoiding, bypassing, removing, deactivating, or impairing anything. As the district court observed in Digital Drilling Data Systems, LLC v. Petrolink Services, Inc., No. 4:15-CV-02172, 2018 WL 2267139, at *14 (S.D. Tex. May 16, 2018), many different district courts have held that using the correct username and password to access a copyrighted work, even without authorization to do so, does not constitute circumvention under § 1201(a) of the DMCA.

Youtube-dl either involves access to files that don't require a login, or it uses your password / cookies to access the file, so it doesn't bypass access controls.

The claim under 1201(b)(1), which is for copy controls, has more potential.

There are the subsections:

>(A)is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof; >(B)has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof; or >(C)is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person’s knowledge for use in circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof.

A and B clearly don't apply. The primary purpose of youtube-dl isn't to download copyrighted content, but simply to download Youtube videos, whether they're copyrighted or not. There's clearly more than limited legitimate uses (such as downloaded public domain videos.) The question here is about C - there's an arguable case that the examples in the repo that this letter cites are "marketing" usage for infringing purposes. I'm somewhat skeptical that counts as "marketing", however, and it could be easily remedied by removing those examples or replacing with public domain examples.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#429
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that copyrighted works were included in the readme shows it was intended for that use, and the RIAA complaint will likely stand up to any legal scrutiny. Just because it can be used for legit purposes too won't matter in the slightest. I mean, Napster could have been used for legal means as well, and it got destroyed in court. The only chance tools like this have legally is when infringement is an "unintende…

Just to add a data point, but back when I still was working for a video distribution startup, we offered our customers the ability to directly import their video inventory from YouTube. They were the owners of the videos, it was just a convenient (and very popular!) feature for them to let us handle this import. We used YouTube-dl for this, of course. No way we could have done this easily without it. We imported hund…

I'm not a lawyer, but I am playing devil's advocate here.

Did your customers own those video files or the rights to the video? If they are the authors and owners of the content surely they uploaded something to YouTube to begin with. Why is that not what they uploaded to your service? If they preferred to import YouTube libraries clearly YouTube was adding some value there.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#430
post #4

Note that RIAA is making this takedown because the software CAN be used to download copyrighted music and videos, and it uses examples in the ~~README~~(unit tests, see correction[1]) as an example of that: > We also note that the source code prominently includes as sample uses of the source code the downloading of copies of our members’ copyrighted sound recordings and music videos, as noted in Exhibit A hereto. For…

I'm also NAL, but familiar with IP law.

My analysis is at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24874277 and I'm broadly skeptical of the legal viability under US law.

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