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PHP 8: Before and After

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181–190 of 346 posts

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#181

Post by asmosoinio »

SergeAx wrote: post #179

Please remember that PHP is more or less the only truly free (as freedom) community driven language suitable for both prototyping/pet projects and enterprise grade web software development. TypeScript and C# are Microsoft, Go is Google, Java is Oracle. Python is not suitable for complex multi-layered systems, Rust is too young and let's see where it will go without Mozilla. Ruby? IMO Ruby is in sunset phase, no new a…

> Python is not suitable for complex multi-layered systems

For example what?

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#182

Post by antod »

TheDoctor0 wrote: post #63
throw_m239339 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can’t build websites with Java The (popular) horrors that are Symfony, Laravel, Doctrine and co were all inspired by Java Web frameworks and ORM.

Spring was first MVC framework, but Laravel in PHP and Django in Python were inspired by Ruby on Rails.

For first MVC, you didn't mean Struts rather than Spring? Even then I have a vague feeling there were earlier ones.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#183

Post by darkstar_16 »

asmosoinio wrote: post #181
SergeAx wrote: post #179

Please remember that PHP is more or less the only truly free (as freedom) community driven language suitable for both prototyping/pet projects and enterprise grade web software development. TypeScript and C# are Microsoft, Go is Google, Java is Oracle. Python is not suitable for complex multi-layered systems, Rust is too young and let's see where it will go without Mozilla. Ruby? IMO Ruby is in sunset phase, no new a…

> Python is not suitable for complex multi-layered systems For example what?

Yeah, really interested to know why ?

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#184

Post by sullyj3 »

SergeAx wrote: post #179

Please remember that PHP is more or less the only truly free (as freedom) community driven language suitable for both prototyping/pet projects and enterprise grade web software development. TypeScript and C# are Microsoft, Go is Google, Java is Oracle. Python is not suitable for complex multi-layered systems, Rust is too young and let's see where it will go without Mozilla. Ruby? IMO Ruby is in sunset phase, no new a…

Haskell is very free, and very suitable for complex systems!

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#185

Post by giantDinosaur »

simion314 wrote: post #152
cute_boi wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its like saying most of the seg fault caused is not due to use of C. Common langauge pattern / design choices made php to have bugs/ spaghetti code. At the end developer control many thing but that doesn't mean language don't have any fault.

It is not fair to bring C into this, C is an old language and when all the kernels and core libraries were created it was the best tool for the job. You hate C please go and contribute to the many rewrites and one day 25 years from now maybe we will have an OS written in some language that is cool now but would be outdated then. My advice is use the best tool for the job when possible, if you don't have a choice then…

If we want to really reduce typing we should make everyone program in Haskell (and start a national effort to improve its tooling) ;)

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#186

Post by psychoslave »

mknx wrote: post #159
ai_ja_nai wrote: post #153

I don't understand as of 2020 the use case for PHP. It's verbose as Java without its speed. Seriously, can anybody help here? It made sense to use PHP EXACLTLY in the good bad old days because it was just leaner to bang out applications in PHP than with other languages. Nowadays, I feel that PHP cake has been largely eaten by Python and Ruby. Why using PHP with such a level of verbosity?

I converted about two dozens Ruby and Python apps to PHP in the last 7-8 years.

This single sentence horrified me more than the whole terrorist attacks over the last 26 years (before that, there was no PHP).

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#187

Post by mtberatwork »

dcabrejas wrote: post #136
TheHemric wrote: post #112

I don't really understand why in 2020 there's still this kind of blind hatred against this language. It often comes from horrible bad memories from previous versions or old frameworks. Objectively, compared to other languages i've been working with it is more than OK. Despite it's lack of "style" it is easy to understand, host, tests, diagnose and it is powerfull for web applications. I've been working on a SaaS API…

I haven't found any good arguments against PHP in the comments here, just pure hate. Let's name a few of the arguments people are making: 1. Its variables start with $ and that is ugly: I mean, come on, I won't even entertain this bigotry. 2. It used to be better before: This is just pure nonesense, before OOP PHP wasn't good to create any big and well-structured application, it is ironic because most of the bad opin…

> 3. It is trying to be Java: Well, sure it is more like Java, only less verbose and easier to write. Developers can be much more productive in PHP.

I suppose if you are equating extra keystrokes to productivity, then sure. However, Java has vast ecosystems and standard libraries that dwarf most languages. The real gains in productivity are in not re-inventing the wheel for everything. Verbosity has little to do with productivity in the bigger picture.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#188

Post by megous »

jhgb wrote: post #178
dcabrejas wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't found any good arguments against PHP in the comments here, just pure hate. Let's name a few of the arguments people are making: 1. Its variables start with $ and that is ugly: I mean, come on, I won't even entertain this bigotry. 2. It used to be better before: This is just pure nonesense, before OOP PHP wasn't good to create any big and well-structured application, it is ironic because most of the bad opin…

> 1. Its variables start with $ and that is ugly: At the very least it seems nonsensical and cargo-cultish: As a non PHP-er, what is the actual purpose of $? In Perl, it indicates variable context (for better or worse, there's more than one, so it has to be indicated somehow ). In shell, it indicates the substitution of variable name by its value. In PHP...I draw a blank. It really seems like an "I wanted my language…

It differentiates variables from global constant things (constants, class names, function names, ...) for which the scoping is different. So you can have $strlen = strlen(...);

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#189

Post by hhjinks »

dcabrejas wrote: post #136
TheHemric wrote: post #112

I don't really understand why in 2020 there's still this kind of blind hatred against this language. It often comes from horrible bad memories from previous versions or old frameworks. Objectively, compared to other languages i've been working with it is more than OK. Despite it's lack of "style" it is easy to understand, host, tests, diagnose and it is powerfull for web applications. I've been working on a SaaS API…

I haven't found any good arguments against PHP in the comments here, just pure hate. Let's name a few of the arguments people are making: 1. Its variables start with $ and that is ugly: I mean, come on, I won't even entertain this bigotry. 2. It used to be better before: This is just pure nonesense, before OOP PHP wasn't good to create any big and well-structured application, it is ironic because most of the bad opin…

> It is trying to be Java: Well, sure it is more like Java, only less verbose and easier to write. Developers can be much more productive in PHP

This sounds like kool-aid. Any productivity gain from reduced verbosity would be minimal. Typing out two extra keywords for your method signature is not going to affect your productivity in any real way in reality.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#190

Post by kenniskrag »

TheHemric wrote: post #112

I don't really understand why in 2020 there's still this kind of blind hatred against this language. It often comes from horrible bad memories from previous versions or old frameworks. Objectively, compared to other languages i've been working with it is more than OK. Despite it's lack of "style" it is easy to understand, host, tests, diagnose and it is powerfull for web applications. I've been working on a SaaS API…

same for c++
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