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PHP 8: Before and After

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Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#61

Post by thdrdt »

dragosmocrii wrote: post #18
sdfhbdf wrote: post #6

It's becoming kind of an Enterprise language [1]. Don't get me wrong I think PHP is getting cooler, hopefully everybody catches up and the fact that You can have a shared hosting for pennies run Your PHP code really puts it at an advantage compared to others. [1]: https://github.com/joaomilho/Enterprise

Lately I see myself abusing (???) types more often than ever. Before, I'd feel comfortable returning an array of structured data from a function. Now, I'm creating Value Objects to ensure my data is both valid and correctly used elsewhere. Kinda feels nice to get intellisense working too and knowing that the things that I'm trying to do with that VO are valid

But your IDE could understand your code for years with:

  /* @return MyObject */
Returning an array with unknown items has always been bad practice imho.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#62

Post by philjohn »

dragosmocrii wrote: post #18
sdfhbdf wrote: post #6

It's becoming kind of an Enterprise language [1]. Don't get me wrong I think PHP is getting cooler, hopefully everybody catches up and the fact that You can have a shared hosting for pennies run Your PHP code really puts it at an advantage compared to others. [1]: https://github.com/joaomilho/Enterprise

Lately I see myself abusing (???) types more often than ever. Before, I'd feel comfortable returning an array of structured data from a function. Now, I'm creating Value Objects to ensure my data is both valid and correctly used elsewhere. Kinda feels nice to get intellisense working too and knowing that the things that I'm trying to do with that VO are valid

that's why I like the "shape" type in Hack - the ease of returning an assoc array, but with field and type checks enforced.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#63

Post by TheDoctor0 »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #34
jonwinstanley wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t build websites with Java

> You can’t build websites with Java The (popular) horrors that are Symfony, Laravel, Doctrine and co were all inspired by Java Web frameworks and ORM.

Spring was first MVC framework, but Laravel in PHP and Django in Python were inspired by Ruby on Rails.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#64

Post by jmnicolas »

Can a fellow geek knowledgeable in PHP gives me a few pointers?

I have inherited a 12 year old PHP app written by 2 interns. The code was written with Notepad++ (no IDE), no comments except when they copy pasted something from the internet, most variables are single letter and it's the biggest spaghetti bowl I have ever seen.

To add insult to injury I have no experience with PHP (apart from peeking at this code to fix a minor bug here and there). To be fair the app works OK and has done the job for all those years.

This app has never been updated so it's PHP version 4 or 5 I think, it runs on an old Debian 5 VM, it's not facing internet, internal use only. It was supposed to be deprecated last year, but now given our budget (or lack thereof) and the sheer incompetence of our new provider I don't see it happening soon.

Is there a way for me to have an IDE with a kind of "compiler" that would help me convert this to PHP 8 so I can migrate it on a more recent VM? Of course there's 0 budget for this.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#65

Post by agumonkey »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #43
sdfhbdf wrote: post #6

It's becoming kind of an Enterprise language [1]. Don't get me wrong I think PHP is getting cooler, hopefully everybody catches up and the fact that You can have a shared hosting for pennies run Your PHP code really puts it at an advantage compared to others. [1]: https://github.com/joaomilho/Enterprise

> It's becoming kind of an Enterprise language It tried for decades to be one with Doctrine, Symonfy and co, trying to copy the worst of Java EE with every single possible design pattern implemented in these frameworks, XML configuration files and co... The problem is no generics, no private packages makes PHP OO a horrible mess compared to Java (or C#).

It's a different culture. They go around the problems differently. Also the way the write programs seems simpler and leaner (composer in mind)... probably not ultra safe but a good enough ratio I guess.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#66

Post by philjohn »

viraptor wrote: post #5

I'm not up to date on php code, but can't the first example be done using reflection? For example a SubscriberBase class which: lists all of its "on*" methods, checks if there's only one parameter, gets its type via https://www.php.net/manual/en/reflectionparameter.gettype.ph... and registers the method to receive events of that type. From the docs it looks like it's possible in php7 and doesn't need explicit text ma…

I'd need to check if this is still the case in PHP, but Reflection was orders of magnitude slower just a few short years go for cases such as ReflectionClass->methodExists() vs method_exists()

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#67

Post by AdrianB1 »

jmnicolas wrote: post #64

Can a fellow geek knowledgeable in PHP gives me a few pointers? I have inherited a 12 year old PHP app written by 2 interns. The code was written with Notepad++ (no IDE), no comments except when they copy pasted something from the internet, most variables are single letter and it's the biggest spaghetti bowl I have ever seen. To add insult to injury I have no experience with PHP (apart from peeking at this code to fi…

IDE: Visual Studio Code with the PHP extensions, free.

Compiler: you are looking in the wrong direction, PHP is interpreted. There were some compilers, but it's not what you need.

Converting to PPHP 8: do you need that? what are you trying to achieve? You can keep the app another year or so it it is working, don't fix what is not broken. There is no way to convert to 8, you need to rewrite it, PHP become more object oriented with each version and that is a paradigm shift there is no converter for.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#68

Post by mhd »

JekLod10 wrote: post #11

So php tries so hard to be Java. Well, just stick with Spring and get the job done professionally. Learning PHP these days is a waste of time.

What language _isn't_ trying to be Java these days? What the old jargon file described as "bondage and discipline lanugage" applies to all major programming environments now, as Java proved that you can actually commodify programmers quite well and both old-school enterprises and the SV juggernaut need their harvest.

C#, TypeScript, Go, PHP -- they all converge on the same methods, tools and workflows. Tech choice these days is about what you want to have on your resume.

Re: PHP 8: Before and After

#70

Post by cannedslime »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #43
sdfhbdf wrote: post #6

It's becoming kind of an Enterprise language [1]. Don't get me wrong I think PHP is getting cooler, hopefully everybody catches up and the fact that You can have a shared hosting for pennies run Your PHP code really puts it at an advantage compared to others. [1]: https://github.com/joaomilho/Enterprise

> It's becoming kind of an Enterprise language It tried for decades to be one with Doctrine, Symonfy and co, trying to copy the worst of Java EE with every single possible design pattern implemented in these frameworks, XML configuration files and co... The problem is no generics, no private packages makes PHP OO a horrible mess compared to Java (or C#).

I agree with you. Symfony and composer in general has just turned our code base into some kind of fugly java like monstrosity.

When I used composer the first time I really enjoyed it, that project also used Silex a minimalistic symfony2, which I also really liked. But what I found out is that in general it is really terrible to be dependent on others, as Silex was dropped by Potencier and my project is left in limbo, sadly. Its very sad because its one of the coolest things I ever worked on, and its still in use today many years after. But I am worrying that some time in the feature, a vulnerability or problem with Silex comes up, the company will have to rewrite the project completely some day.

I worked alot with Drupal7, absolutely hated it mostly because the hook system was hard to remember and performance of Drupal7 in general was absolutely terrible. Then I tried Drupal8 and though some changes are welcome, some stuff are just so god damn complicated, a task that would have been as simple as a few lines of code becomes pages of boiler plate, EventSubscribers and YML config files.

PHP used to be a good choice because it was rapid application development on crack cocaine, developers were cheap and diverse in skill and background.

I still think there is SOME use for PHP, I personally like it for shell scripts mostly because im so familiar with it. I used it alot the past 10 years for making stuff fast for friends and personal use I guess its also a decent beginner language for web development, though javascript would be higher on my list today because of the obvious front end relation.

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