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Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

reuters.com

131–140 of 232 posts

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#131
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted you because you merely posted your opinion, with which I agree. His actions did result in loss of trust in the US from foreign governments and people but I think his main intent was to alert the American people to what their government is doing. I consider him a patriot and my only regret is that he was trapped in Russia though I'm not sure his plans to travel to South America would have panned out.

If that was his intent: Why not selectively publish only the parts about surveillance of US citizens? Why publish details of how the US was dealing with adversaries like China? From the looks of it, Snowden cared about getting famous more than any specific goal.

Selective publishing runs into the problem of easy deniability and drawn out recognition if any due to its narrow scope. The weight of the body of the revealed secrets forced the hand of the US intelligence agencies to admit their veracity. Considering how whistle blowers in the US are routinely persecuted, the malfeasance in so many cases successfully survives whistle-blowing, and the leadership who directed authority over the malfeasance avoid responsibility for it, that "shotgun" strategy is likely a predictable emergent response.

Until the US organizational culture and culture in general is orders of magnitude less hostile to whistle blowers, this asymmetric response will likely continue. The reflexivity of this situation likely means US organizations that don't tolerate whistle blowing become more compartmentalized to force whistle blowing into a more deniable narrow scope, which of course means the same organizations increase their inefficiency.

An altogether horrible development all around.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#132

The big question is what Russia has to gain from this. Is it just to troll the US?

By giving asylum to near #1 target of US establishment they can prove to all kind of corrupt politicians, dictators (or just plain military criminals and terrorists) who serve Russia interests that they able to protect them from US too.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#133
post #128

Just a PR stunt to give something else to talk about after the botched Navalny assasination. Changing topics. So Putin may look like a good guy.

Or a welcoming signal to any public figures in the States who may be facing multiple unwinnable lawsuits and additional negative exposures in the US in the coming months and years...

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something tells me that the high level people wouldn't like that.

Yep. Obama didn’t even pardon Manning. He only commuted her sentence. The difference being that pardoning removes it from your record while commuted is just “time served.”

As much as I liked Obama, his government would take any chance at spying on others.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Had Snowden simply revealed unconstitutional domestic mass surveillance programs, perhaps he could be pigeonholed as a whistleblower. Multiple former officials did this and society largely didn't believe them and didn't care. Thomas Drake, Bill Binney, and others came forward through the appropriate legal channels and lost their careers, faced prosecution, and absolutely nothing changed. Legally, you're technically…

Power vacuums get filled. NSA was largely torched to the ground. Good or bad, there was a counterbalance between big tech and the NSA that is now gone. SV snatched up the power. Everyone connected to big tech, Graham and company, stood to gain immensely from Snowden's treason against his country. Naturally, "hero" is the word. I'd speculate that Snowden singlehandedly added trillions in value to big tech.

> there was a counterbalance between big tech and the NSA that is now gone.

What?!?! Big tech was the primary facilitator of NSA surveillance through PRISM, they worked together to spy on billions of people. The idea that the general public benefited from this relationship is laughable.

> I'd speculate that Snowden singlehandedly added trillions in value to big tech.

Care to elaborate on this? How did Snowden add trillions in value to the companies that enabled the NSA to spy on everyone?

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an easy PR win. The US behaves like a petulant child, and Russia can come off like the benevolent country protecting freedom. That seems like an extremely easy decision to make.

Pardon Snowden and Assange. Let all the dirt about all the high level people come out no matter how dark dirty or ugly they are, only then does US can start to establish some legitimacy on the world stage.

There's no reason to believe Snowden or Assange have dirt on high level people that they've been sitting on. Why wouldn't they have released it already?

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden was never found guilty of anything, so the President can't pardon him. And Presidential authority doesn't extend to say "Whatever he did, this country forgives him" in the absence of a guilty verdict. It's commonly thought to, but the actual result is unknown; a subsequent President's authority to arrest him on his "pardoned" actions and try him for commission of crime under the theory that one cannot be pard…

Nixon was pardoned without even being charged with a crime.

And the Court never had occasion to rule whether that was sufficient because nobody after Ford tried to have him tried for his crimes.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#138

The big question is what Russia has to gain from this. Is it just to troll the US?

It’s an easy PR win. The US behaves like a petulant child, and Russia can come off like the benevolent country protecting freedom. That seems like an extremely easy decision to make.

Not really, they look like an asylum for criminals, actually. It's also the logical place that people think trump will flee to after he loses the election, because he is as corrupt as they come, and russia will welcome him with open arms. Not exactly a good look for russia.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#139

Happy for Snowden, but I hope that if Biden wins, he'd pardon Snowden - following Obama's footsteps in commuting Chelsea Manning. Although it might be harder since Biden to the Right of Obama, and given how hawkish, war-mongering, neo-libs have cozied up to Biden, and commuting Snowden isn't really possible since he has never been tried in court.

I doubt the establishment's dimentia riddled puppet will take any dramatic actions in the name of freedom.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. Nixon was preemptively pardoned by Ford with no charges pending.

And no subsequent President challenged that pardon. That's the operative factor here. Nobody's ever tried to claim the President lacks authority to pardon for crimes untried. What would happen if it was tried is unclear; there's no precedent. Trump's enough of an outlier that his successor might actually test the hypothesis.

> The President...shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

The Constitution makes no mention of trial, or of conviction.

Indeed, the Supreme Court has ruled that pardons can be offered prior to a conviction in Ex parte Garland[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_parte_Garland

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